Greetings gentle colleagues gamemasters.

I have a question for you. I have recently leafed through some old, old, judge guild's traveller scenarios basically trying to see how to write SF scenario (I prefer calling them adventures myself, but there you go).

Let me explain.I must admit that I have found so far published DH scenarios to be mixed bag. I loved Edge of Darkness and House of Ash and Dust (both by Alan Blaigh incidentally). I think that Shades on Twilight is pretty lovely space dungeon romp, but I did not like other two scenarios from Purge the Unclean (Rejoice...was too railroady for me and Baron Hopes just lacked something).

I wanted to give as much as possible freedom to my players or better said I wanted them to be presented with situations and locations and not be mere observers in ongoing NPC soap opera. So I turned to old Judges Guild modules for Traveller which I remembered quite fondly but still I decided to ask gamemasters on this boards:

How do you structure your adventures? Do you prefer to have strong narrative structure, almost like a movie scenario, or do you prefer to have collection of locations and NPCs and then go from there, or something entierly else...

Sorry, for double post but when we are already at it:

Is it just me or do you, also, feel that mission oriented-investigative structure of DH is somehow limiting? Go, find, kill - almost like Inquisitor tabletop game of yore...

Or am I just more suited for picaresque open-ended Rogue Traderish adventure structure ?

Hello,

I am actualy new to this forum so Ill start with a general Hello to everyone.

I tend to run my games very free-form when it comes to adventures. When I plan out my missions, I give them a starting point, I usualy have a end point, or the finaly of my adventures , and lastly I have a very events/npcs/weird stuff that I work into my players travels through my adventures. I let my players tell alot of the story and I act more like their guide. Sorry if that was confusing.

I bascily let my players tell the story with me filling in the little gaps left inbetween. Its not that i do not like adventures, I really do agree with what Cat said about them but I find the options in most pre made adventures to be a little limiting, as my typical group enjoys poping the most unique solutions to problems that my adventures provide. And I always through my plot hooks for upcoming adventures with in what ever adventures they are currently in.

Also, If I see an idea, or map, or what ever in a premade I really enjoy Ill borrow it for one of my adventures. Overall the method I run my adventures is very fun for me, Im not just reading through a book at my players. Im playing in the game it self, I watch the players and move my NPC's into the right spots and prepair proper events. If anything I am playing agisnt them at the same time trying to work things in while answering my players intresting questions.

I do hope that helped alittle , basicly expect the unexpected and be ready to deviate if your players start heading that way and over all HAve fun Running the game just as much as your players enjoy playing it. If anything that is my rule, I love runing the game and my players love it. I think over all it adds alot to the game. Anyways If you need anyhelp just send me a PM, pending they have that in this forum, or what ever and Ill answer if I can.

Lastly Hello all agian!

--DNO

(PS I do applogise for any gramatical errors!)

Not in any official capacity: Welcome

and you were not confusing. Don't worry about that.

You see I also don't like pre-generated adventures that much because these days they read more like a novel or even more appropriately choose you adventure type book.

But I like taking and reading a good module if it has some interesting locations, useful NPCs or 'monsters' or if simply provides good backdrop for adventure. I mean I loved Edge of Darkness because it provided me with Coscarla Division District, some interesting NPCs and over-reaching plot that could be approached in any number of ways. In certain way it was like very old RQ modules like Snakepipe Hollow and Apple Lane or something like that. For me that was great. I could probably GM in that Emperor-forgotten, decayed district any number of adventures for as long as possible.

On the other hand 'Rejoice...' was so railroady that absolutely nothing, nothing, interesting to me (as a GM) could happen. It was simply like painting by numbers and my players didn't found it in any way inspirational.

When it come to running pre-written modules I always feel free to re-write/change (sometimes entirely on the fly) anything I think doesn't work. If the players come up with a course of action the module does not support b/c it didn't occur to the authors, no problem, just try to figure out what impact this new course would have on what has been presented, extrapolating and adding stuff as needed.

When putting together my own adventures I try to come up with an idea for an interesting situation that needs to be resolved somehow. Either that or some other hook gives me an idea. Once there is an idea seed I try to figure out who/what the npcs are and what they're trying to accomplish. After that I try to figure out what will happen if the the pcs (or someone similar) doesn't come along and interfere with the situation. Then I try to guess a couple of ways the PCs might approach/interfere with things and how the NPCs are likely to react to that.

The once the game starts and the PCs do something entire different, I can use what I figured out earlier as a baseline from which to craft reactions to what the PCs actually did do.

That's the pattern I go with when I have time to plan. Otherwise I just run on the fly and make it up as I go.

Well, I like to freeform it. But unfortunately my game group consists mostly of teenagers and teens these days have had all the Creativity sucked out of them by Xbox, Television and World of WankCraft and are henceforth incapable of freeforming.

Freeforming is where the players help tell their own heroic story. It's easier for the GM and is the difference in satisfaction between RPG's and watching a movie or playing a video game where everything is scripted for you.

Ideally, you have a list of bad guys/items/locations/sub-plots ready and you dole them out as clues to your players. In turn, your players tell you at the end of any particular game session which direction they want to investigate next game. For instance, I rifle through my mini collection for inspiration and keep a notebook handy in case I come up with a brilliant idea. It doesn't have to be long or complicated. Just something/someone/someplace cool that I can inject into the game later.

You, as the GM, already know (because your players told you) where the next scenario will take place. Half the trouble with brainstorming the whole thing yourself is coming up with motivations for the players, but when freeforming they do that for you. Then, you try to make it so there will be some unexpected twist or turn, allowing you to introduce one or more new clues. Greed oriented games (hack'n'slash) are easier, usually, as the players' goals are invariably "I want to acquire legendary Item X". Ok, cool. They quest for Item X and all I have to do is come up with some monsters, traps, red herrings... But DH usually isn't greed-centric.

As the campaign progresses, you will be needing to steer the players a lot less and giving them less and less direction. Your job now becomes to figure out a convoluted plot to tie in all the seemingly unrelated scenarios they've been on and keep the ball rolling. That being said, always have a "canned" adventure idea or three in the back of the binder in case the players "stall".

Eventually you have your Grand Plot figured out and though it might be 30 game sessions away, you have to inject something in every game that steers eventually toward the Grand Climactic Ending.

Here's the problem with pre-mades and Campaigns that are too...pre-planned:

My players enjoyed Purge the Unclean, but how do I fit it in with my Grand Campaign? That's not too hard, but how do I connect PtheU with the other pre-made adventures? You don't have to, but it's usually better in a Campaign that there's some thread of continuity between scenarios and the main plot. Beware of going overboard pre-planning the Main Plot. Players need to be steered sometimes, but not led. What I mean is that by the time you get to your conclusion you can't still be in "Get Orders>Search Cultist Temple>Kill everyone>Repeat" mode.

Too much pre-planning leads to frustrating "Ramming the square peg in the round hole". Players (especially good ones) are notorious for "Not following the PLAN". Not to mention, the players need to entertain YOU as much as you need to entertain them. They'll do this with good RP and using their brain.

I guess I am somewhere in the middle. I liked all of the adventures in PtU, but agree that they were heavily on the "structured narrative" end of the scale.

Generally, I write scenarios, so there are many points of interaction and avenues of approach. But I do always make sure I have a possible story course in mind. I don't try to push the players into going that direction (although admittedly, some events are more inevitable than others).

I like to do this because it ensures I have not written an un-solvable puzzle by accident. It also gives me a direction to nudge the PC's if they seem to be spinning their wheels to the point that it seems that things are frustrating instead of fun anymore.

What you said about the "unsolvable puzzle"...

It's really important to know what the characters can and cannot do. Sometimes you have to punish them because nobody thought to bring a rope... But you never want an obstacle that they have no chance of overcoming and this happens more often in pre-made adventures.

Maxim C. Gatling said:

I think that it is not only teens I have at least one 'mature' player that is very passive and wants to be spoon-fed. I also blame WoW and (some) contemporary computer games.

Unfortunately I think that state of play is not only problem for player's passivity.

it seems that, at least some of my players are intimidated by 40K universe. I understand that its vagueness can be overwhelming to more introverted or cautious player. Coupled with complete lack of 'gamist' solutions for social background and contacts (like in White Wolf games) in the DH is not really helpful and somehow makes Players (at least in my game) utterly reliant to any input coming from their high-up (Inquisitor/Interrogator)and thus passive.

This is why I have decided to give each Players 500-1000 xp at the start of the game to be only and only spent on contacts and alternate identities from the Inquisitor's Handbook. I feel that in such complex world like 40k universe both Players and their characters need some firm social ground and that once they have their feet firmly planted they are a little bit more active.

Please understand that my remark on the lack of social mechanics is not an 'attack' on DH but just thinking how can I model a game a little bit more to my liking. One of reasons I am posting here and not on Dark Reign is that I want to talk with people who actually like and play Dark Heresy

Maxim C. Gatling said:

I usually also operate like that. I like to have location and important people populating that location and some map of their relations.

Of course, problem is that secret-police-in-space model is again little bit too limiting for my players. People are usually complaining that their players go mad with power in DH but my guys and girls are like paralyzed with fear of their Inquisitor.

Maybe correct question here would be how do you involve your players? Make them at ease. Invite them to explore their surroundings without (too much) trepidation.

Also is it only problem for my group or does structure of typical DH mission somehow encourage this kind of behavior? Inquisitor relation with her Acolytes is something almost from the indy RPG 'My life with the Master'
I am not inexperienced GM. I have been GMIng for over 10 years and still I have problems involving them. Somehow they seem frightened by 40k universe.

Also what is the area you guys work with? Underhive favela and surroundings? One Hive city? One planet? One system? Sub-sector? How detailed you keep that area. I always loved smaller but detailed like hell approach but in DH context what is smaller area?

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Ok, they (my players) understand greed and ambition. Maybe right game for them is Rogue Trader? Currently they show almost no wish to get involved with dangerous heretics and mutants in the name of the God-Emperor. Each time I have to involve them personally through their family, friends, relatives...But they just go through the motions. I want them to be active and to challenge me. Game should be fun for me too

So far in my campaign their have been 5 distinct(ish) adventures/story arcs with various sub-plots (some internal and discrete, some ongoing). I don't say missions here because not all of them have been missions from the =][=. At least two have been the result of getting caught up inthings along the way.

1) Final Leave - (Dusk) the introduction of our Inquisitor and the recruitment of the first two acolytes

2) Illumination - (Iocanthos) the adventure from the main book w/ 2 major additions/alterations/twists, intro 3rd acolyte

3) And Yet Another Delay - (Coseflame) Also known as The Coseflame Debacle/How We Doomed a Planet, this was not an =][= mission, instead it began with the acolytes on a layover awaiting transport then having to investigate the destruction in orbit of the vessel they were supposed to be shipping out on. Here we lost one of our Acolytes to daemonic possession.

4) And the Wind Cuts to the Bone - (Baraspine) Hunting a ritualistic serial killer suspected of having ties to chaos. Intro of new character for player whose former PC became daemonhost. New PC introduced as prime suspect in case.

5) Sons of Men - (Gemmu) On the small mining world of Gemmu conspiracy and kidnapping lead to treachery and war. This one started out w/ the PC's having the option to wait on the ship or take some shore leave while one of their superiors took care of other business on planet. They got involved in events on planet on their own, but things later became an =][= mission as the situation developed and their superior made contact.

The point of all this being, 1) not every story has to be a "mission" from the inquisition. 2) there are various ways to get characters involved in things (orders, hapenstance, blowing up their spaceship...)

My particular game has wandered from planet to planet, but still has maintained high degree of detail.

Hope some of this is usefule to you.

I feel your pain, Cat.

I've got 4 teenagers and one 40yr old in my gaming group (the older one and I take turns GM'ing.) Our game started off as Inquisitor. I would write background fluff and email it, then during the game sessions we'd have the "fight scene". The teens hankered for more "Roleplaying" which was good, but they were used to the WoW model of pseudo-roleplaying, which was really, really bad.

As you can imagine, my campaign has gone on for a very long time. Probably 30+ gaming sessions spread out over 2-2 1/2 years. Slowly, the kids are finally starting to come around. Here's some tips/tricks I've used (kudos to those on these forums for suggesting some of them)...

1. Every character has to have a name.

Sounds obvious, but I'm of the opinion that if the player can't remember his own name, that's step one in getting them involved. If the GM can't remember a character's name, then they're obviously not using it enough. This also ties in with "don't let your players refer to their characters in 3rd person". I.E. don't let your players say "My toon shoots that dude..." Immersion relies on personal attachment to the main character. All players have to feel that their character is the "main" character. When's the last time you read a really good book, finished it and couldn't remember the main character's name? What he looked like? How old he was?

2. Minis.

I know this is controversial topic, and I'm not saying Minis are "required". However, even unpainted Minis and a couple cardboard boxes proxying for buildings adds the required amount of focus necessary to involve the players more. I find it to be a psychological truth that just sitting a character's mini in front of most players transforms the character from a piece of paper into a 3D object and that much closer to personal attachment. You don't even have to "use" the minis like 40k. They are wonderful props though.

3. Handouts

Lots of adventure modules have Player Handouts. Use them. Don't be lazy, find a photocopier somewhere and just do it. One of the MOST effective handouts I use is the blank DataSlate from Dark Reign, which I populate with info and print out. Maps, bios, newspaper clippings, interrogation reports, whatever, it looks 10x cooler on a DataSlate

4. Mood Music/Audio Props

Lots of people like mood music, I like Audio Props. Audio Props take a lot of time and help from others to prepare, but are some of the most effective props possible. Think "Audio cutscene". Biggest obstacle on my part is finding a chick to do the female parts who will take it seriously...hard sometimes when you tell her the nerdy purpose behind your request. I don't do mood music myself, but cannot deny that music has a profound psychological effect when used properly and can enhance a game session immensely.,

5. Know the Rules

Nothing blows the mood like a stall in the game. Taking 10 min. to look up a rule is one of them. Anticipate game stalls, identify the common causes and always have something in your GM bag to counter them. Example: Game is constantly interrupted by Ethan txtng sum chik. Solution: take the battery out of his phone and fine him 100 EXP.

6. Allow Multiple Characters

A lot of GM's poo-poo this idea, but depending on your group dynamics it has certain justifyable merits. If a player's character dies, they don't feel like they're starting over. Even if you allow the next character extra XP to bridge the "survivor gap", he/she is still starting with what basically amounts to a wet-behind-the-ears stranger, which is tough on new players. It also makes them feel more at ease and in control because they can choose a character for a particular mission based upon character personality and skill sets, rather than being "stuck" with a character who doesn't have the proper skills and/or sticks out like Osama Bin Laden at the Los Vegas Pr0no Awards. By the way, I rarely let players take more than one character on a mission. Another benefit is when players decide to take off in different directions. Having 2 characters means the player doesn't have to sit and twiddle his pud while the other players are interrogating the Ecclesiarch...

In my game, the 40+player IS the Inquisitor. He wasn't always, but that's a long story. Remember, this started off using Inquisitor rules, then migrated to Dark Heresy. They have their own Black Ship and over time have accumulated most of their material needs/wants. So, I have an ideal situation for Freeforming.

This is a space game, so I wanted the players to have the relative freedom and opportunity to explore different planets. Sure, some GM's like playing the entire thing out in one location, say a Hive, but our group enjoys changing up the scenery frequently. As for detail, I try to detail as much as possible. I have a long list of ongoing adversaries, groups and individuals, which recur frequently and the PC's haven't connected all the pieces yet.

My PC's chase the bad guys from planet to planet and eventually, when they catch up with the Archenemy who's behind it all...THEN I'll set forth the epic scenario where the fate of the Imperium is at stake.

Oh, one more thing. Award XP for "GM" entertainment. You're entertained by something they did? Throw them a bone. Award XP for buying their own PC mini. Award more if they go through the trouble of painting it. Award XP for bringing the beer.

Rogue Trader will be easier to GM because of the "greed" factor. Inexperienced players quite often have a hard time assimilating if there's no "phat lewtz" motivation. If you ask me, Rogue Trader should have come FIRST, then Dark Heresy.

" If the players come up with a course of action the module does not support b/c it didn't occur to the authors" not if...when, I feel this always happen with the groups I play with, roleplayers these days are insanely inventive!

Personally I tend to improvise quite a bit, sometimes it works out sometimes it dosn't but I always have a general idea in my mind of what I want the adventure to be focused on and some keythings I want to happen.

For instance, I'm planning an adventure where the group meets their future arch-enemy for the first time, I know I want him to be a techpriest with a thing for xeno technoligy, I know I wan't them to encounter him in some form of complex containing labs while he's downloading something, and I know I want him to excape, and thats about it so far, thats how most of my adventures/scenarios/campaigns start out.

I agree with most of the points so far. heres how i write myadventures:

I usually divide my adventures intoparts then write down the basic concept or idea with background for the adventure, get an idea of how the adventure will pan out and then write out the adventure in parts or sections such as Introduction, Middle, Finalee, etc. i'm also blessed (or cursed with an overactive imagination which gives me trunk loads of ideas at once)

But i generally preferwriting adventures than using pre-gen adventures as i really enjoy writing them and know them and have a good idea how they will work (this with any game not just Dark Heresy). i actually prefer GMing to playing.

Long ago I ran into the same illusionary (as in: doesnt really exist, but at first glance appears to be quite real) problem with ShadowRun: The limited concept of Mission-based scenarios started to feel very unflexible.

This is how I go about stuff like that since then, and it has worked.

1.) I decide a huge, overarcing theme and perhaps, if needed, metaplot for the entire campaign, or at least the forseeable future. For exampe, in my current campaign, its all about a scheme of the Logicians (see Disciples of the Dark Gods and the Edge of Darkness scenario for more about them) to get access to a Reaver Titan which has gone missing/inactive in the aftermath of some distant battle long ago, and was left on a small, relatively little-known world (custom-made, for various reasons) along the western borders of the Calixis sector.

2.) Now, I come up with a list of things that will happen in that storyline, roughly in order and with a sketchy, flexible timeline. For example, first the Logicians need to find out about that titan, then confirm its location, confirm the fact it actually IS a titan, start making preparations of moving it, deciding what to do with it, getting the equipment, making the needed alliances, get to the planet and then carry the titan off to whereever they want it, for whatever reason.

3.) I invent, or (in my case) copy the mastermind(s) behind the thing, give them names, personality, goals, maybe even a little twist like a dispute in the hierarchy or a traitor. I then give each of them a "lieutenant", their main lackey, and I will start my campaign using one of these lackey who have a direct connection to the main masterminds behind my overarcing plot, or even use one of the main baddies themselves.

4.) From then on, every other or so mission will have something to do with the storyline, or add depth to it. For example, my first mission was about a bunch of rogue techpriests trying to get hold of Ambulons control mechanics to make it walk into the sea and be destroyed. At the end, the final confrontation was with a rogue tech-magos and his huge mechanical combat servitor spider, and he carelessly carried a memo/notepad of sorts, in which it was pointed out that there was someone he took orders from, higher up the chain. I left it at that.

After the first 3 or 4 missions, slowly unveiling the threat of the Logicians and them manipulating a veritable horde of misled chaos cultists with the help of the signature NPC Ferran Ghast, I decided to mix it up a bit, and started having the Logicians take notice, and subsequent steps to get rid of my players. So, instead of missions where they were the acting part, suddenly a series of attempted assassinations and "accidents" happened, and my players tried to find out who was behind it. I basically reversed the roles... I was the attacker now, they had to run for it, and find out what was up and how to end it. Meanwhile their Inquisitor decided the heat was too much and didnt use them for any missions until they got rid of their problems.

They eliminated the lackey (one of the masterminds lieutenants, with a lot of links to the guy from their very first mission ,establishing that this thing started LONG ago before they knew the backgrounds) and kicked the campaign into a higher gear, when my players started trying to follow up on this overarcing plot (I had my inquisitor turn a deaf ear to them, as he thought they just made it up to excuse their trouble dealing with a few upset gangers) but at the same time had to do missions. A game within a game so to speak, where the missions were just parts of the ongoing adventure, and often more or less to the detriment of my players, who wanted to dedicate more resources to the hunt for the logicians, or at least proof so the inquisiton would act.

When the finale of my campaign drew near, they visited the planet, and found it to be a hellhole of a jungle world, when suddenly the titan they just found standing there in a clearing mysteriously devoid of all plant life opens fire, and drops their lander into a crash in the jungle. So, I had many sessions of survival/jungle gameplay that wasnt really mission-based, even though they originally had set out with a task, but it had to take a backseat to sheer survival.

When they reached the clearing with the titan, the machine turned out to be freshly seized and in the process of being corrupted by the spirit of a greater daemon of khorne, courtesy of Ferran Ghast, who had played both the players and the logicians all the time ( I dropped many hints, but they concluded early on when his name popped up that the Logicians used him as a decoy, knowing the Inquisiton would blindly hunt him as being an insult to their integrity, rather than focus on an obscure sub-sect of the Mechanicus which they didnt even really know were up to no good) and jumped ahead of his supposed masters to greet everyone with a full-fledged Reaver Titan at his beck and call. The entire thing ends in a big showdown in the jungle, around the half-active Titan which really just served as a huge piece of interesting landscape (it wasnt able to really do much except spit out a pair of bloodletters when my player killed off Ferrans retinue all too quickly and I wanted to have them a bit more battered up and a showdown in the titans control room, complete with a long fall for Ferran Ghast through the cracked viewport to the ground.

So, thats how I mix it up to get rid of the mission-based gameplay slowly. I firmly believe a good dark heresy campaign can do with a few "one-off" missions that dont tie into any major plot but just exhibit cool ideas, but the bigger it gets, the more I try to twist that idea, or jsut get rid of it altogether when the storyline takes over.