I'm very appreciative and supportive of the 3 book system that FFG have setup. I think in the longrun, especially based on the things they've learned with the Warhammer Fantasy and 40K titles, that we're going to end up with a fantastic product line that will bring several years of fun to our tables.

I'm also looking forward to the three book setup. I don't want to see re-imaginings of smugglers or bounty hunters in future books, I want to see an increase in playable classes. Republic spec ops, Imperial Intelligence, etc… perhaps even Stormtrooper? Perhaps that might mean a very weird group dynamic, but it also allows for some seriously memorable storytelling. Putting all that in one book would dilute the awesomeness I don't want my Star Wars awesome diluted.

E

ErikB said:

1) How can it be, the game is not out yet - and its about a year until AoR is out, so how can we even speculate fairly? This assumption is irrational and lacks any solid basis. It is, to be blunt, a horrendous fallacy. As you say "I dunno" - exactly, you don't know, so why try to make nonsensical speculations about something you know nothing about?

2) On what basis? And where and who are these "Jedi haters" you speak of? Do they even exist? I haven't seen anyone post anything remotely related to such a position.

3) Presumptious, and in my opinion BS. You turn it into binary opposite, which is a fallacy … at best.

4) You point being? C'mon, behave.

ErikB said:

I'm sure it will considering the narrative nature and mechanics. Actions can be as grandious as you want to describe them. Seems to me that the game is great for for playing the science fantasy that Star Wars is.

Jegergryte said:

I guess… Mr. Abrams doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who has any hang ups about delivering what people want to see, so I think it may be worth prepping Jedi who can go toe to toe with the cast of The Avengers or fight a Transformer to a standstill, because, I mean, does anyone think he isn't?

In a kind of related note, I was not excited about Zach Snyder doing one of the non-Episode-numbered Star Wars film until seeing the opening of Man of Steel last week. After the Krypton segment I am up for seeing what he has to offer.

Zomg Spoilers!

Some of us live in Australia which is apparently a third world country when it comes to getting new releases at the same time as the rest of the world.

ErikB said:

You can't really place that squarely on the shoulders of Abrams. He's really just following the trend of the franchise. The Motion Picture was a complete snoozefest. Then they made Wrath of Khan, where they amped up the action. Then Search for Spock seemed a bit more cerebral (and not as good). The Voyage Home lacked a lot of action, but included the fish out of water scenario (pun unintended), which is always popular. The less said about The Final Frontier, the better. Then there was The Undiscovered Country, where they got back to more action.

Then the TNG movies came out, and they started packing them with action. I mean, First Contact had Picard killing Borg with a tommy gun in one scene. Insurrection was where Worf was "definitely feeling aggressive tendencies." I never watched Nemesis, so I can't somment on it.

And look at the shows. TNG was really the most cerebral of the bunch, but it didn't really pick up steam and hit its stride until later on when they added the Borg. DS9 was all about the Dominion War. Voyager was about a ship's mad dash to get home, along the way waging war against the Borg and the Undine.

Is it any wonder that Abram's Star Trek just went to the next level and made it into more of an action movie? That's what audiences want, and he delivered. He also delivered Caitians in the sequel. Two of them. In Kirk's bed. Classic Trek.

ErikB said:

I think you've wathced the first 2d animated clone wars series too many times. He is going to deliver what LF and Disney thinks "people" want to see. There's a difference, and you fooling yourself into whatever fancy you desire doesn't change that, even with pointless comparisons of heroes pitted against heroes. The heroes always wins because they're heroes, its a narrative thing. If the avengers were the heroes, they'd kick Jedi ass … although I serisouly doubt we'd see such a cross-over, if any cross-over at all, they'd be cooperating and your point is still, as it was at the get-go, void and waste of space.

>>>He is going to deliver what LF and Disney thinks "people" want to see.<<<

Well, what do you think Disney will think people want to see?

What I think is, as what you think, irrelevant. It would be pure speculation and a pointless gesture. I mean, beyond that they want to make something that sells and will give them a profit. Whatever that is. They might even want to stay true to the other movies, who knows … at least not us.

Take a guess. Just for fun.

Roleplay the part of JJ or the Disney guy who gets to make the call.

I hope they stay away from Jedi altogether in the movies. I know that I'm sick of the Jedi-dominated storylines from the prequel trilogy and the Clone Wars tv show.

I'd love to see an adaptation of the Thrawn Trilogy that focuses away from the characters of Luke, Han, Leia etc and looks more at the warfare between the New Republic and the remnants of the Empire. Sad to say I know it's unlikely, and hard to separate the Jedi out of that story, but that's what I'd love to see.

Leechman said:

Doubtful they will. The trilogy will have Jedi, of that I have no doubt. Now the solo movies, on the other hand, can vary. Rumours of movies following a young Han Solo or Boba Fett show promise as these characters do not focus on Jedi. And they also take place during a time of no Jedi presence. That's not to say that the Force or sith or other forms might not show up. Movies like the one-shots may be an opportunity to explore alternate Force disciplines.

>>>Rumours of movies following a young Han Solo or Boba Fett show promise as these characters do not focus on Jedi.<<<

It is almost as if you are not breathlessly excited to see Jedi in new big screen adventures…

:0)

--

Proposition:- Insisting on playing a non-Jedi in a game of Force and Destiny is every bit as annoying and disruptive as demanding to play a Jedi in a game of Edge of the Empire.

ErikB said:

I like Jedi. I just don't care for the focus on them. I like many aspects of the Star Wars universe, and Jedi are only one of those aspects.

ErikB said:

Once all three books are out you will be able to just that if you want to, play a scoundrel in a Force & Destiny game. And it isn't demanding to play Jedi in a Edge of the Empire game that is annoying and disruptive. You will also be able to that, if you so choose, once (you guessed it) all three books are out. It is demanding Jedi now from FFG that is annoying people. These games are not going to be exclusionary.

I think people will have a far better time if they really commit to the theme of the game they are playing.

If you are playing EotE, play the coolest smuggler you can think of. Run freight, win and lose fortunes at the sabacc table, do one last job for a crime lord. Embrace it. Don't spend the whole game sulking because your character doesn't have a lightsaber. And if you are playing F&D play the coolest Jedi you can think of. Go on dream quests to uncover ancient evils, invent elaborate lightsaber choreography, fall in love with people you can never be with. The works. Don't spend the whole game sulking because the Jedi are overpowered and no one wants to go to the gaming tables.

ErikB said:

While each game works with its theme, once we have all three books (even before then for some) people can run games that combine all the elements or just some. That's the benefit of playing an RPG and using your imagination. I am a fan of games that combine all the elements. The Legacy era comics are some of my favorite reads. Once I have all three I'll be running a game set in that era.

ErikB said:

Or sulking because jedi haven't been done yet!

There's a great rule of thumb that many GMs I know follow for star wars based games.

All Jedi or No Jedi.

Either all the players play as Jedi, or no one plays as Jedi. Helps avoid the overpowered argument arising

Leechman said:

Not terribly surprising. Jedi only became prevalent in WotC's versions as immediately playable characters. They were the wizards of Star Wars, able to do everything that any other character class could do, better many the time. Many games would end up being the Jedi the Sith-Slayer show, with resident Jedi and her Scoobies. Now some of this can be laid at the feet of the GMs and players, whether because of inexperience (as a GM/player or with the system), but it didn't help that the systems were practically beefing up the Jedi at every turn.

I'm getting the impreassion that mixed parties will be much more feasible this time around.

I am happy they are keeping The Force mild for this game. Not out of any hate for Jedi, or fear that they will overpower all other characters. I am a good enough GM to prevent that sort of abuse. I just think playing in a time when The Force was being suppressed sounds cool, and as the books launch, I can slowly introduce new levels of power.

Plus it gives them time to fine tune the Force Rules which I understand have always been less than stellar in all incarnations of any Star Wars RPG.

I do like the fact that there will be a tangible temptation to utilize the dark side with the way the dice work, and I can always fudge ways to slowly increase power of they are too slow to release the later products.

Lastly, smugglers and bounty hunters are cool without magical powers.

mouthymerc said:

For someone who likes Jedi, you seem rather resentful of them.

ErikB said:

It's not resentful, it's a fact of any mixed-party (Jedi and Non-Jedi) games that the focus inevitably gets drawn to the Jedi. In fact, in many cases, encounter design involves catering for the Jedi first due to their powers and prowess.

Precisely why avoiding mixed parties is a good idea. Stack the group with all Jedi or No Jedi. Everyone gets a fair go at the heroic moments and overriding story.

Leechman said:

I dunno, I've played in and run several Star Wars campaigns in multiple systems, and I'd maintain that, if you've got a table full of mature folks playing the game, it's easy enough to keep things from becoming "The Jedi Show."