Long story short: How does this work? There's no to hit roll so how do you determine how many hits are allocated?

For spray weapons you test agility to avoid being hit. So I would roll agility to avoid it and for every two degrees of success they avoid an additional one (just like the semi-auto rule). Then let them dodge per normal rules.

So for example if the spray weapon is S/3/- and hits a character with a 40 Ag. Then they test agility to avoid being hit and roll a 19 that is two degrees of success. Resulting in two of the three sprays avoided and one remaining. Then they get their dodge. So if the character has dodge +10 and rolls 67 that is one degree of failure and they get hit by the remaining spray.

Do note that I am posting how i would handle it were I GMing based off of my understanding of the rules.

Zenoth's take seems good enough to me.

Yeah, I was thinking something similar. But there seems to be no actual rules for resolving this within the system, which is slightly obnoxious.

Also spray weapon damage vs. hordes is something that needs to be houseruled.

Does such a weapon even exist? I haven't found any examples. All flame weapons seem to be single shot.

The rules indeed make it rather difficult as flame weapons do not require a BS test while multiple hits per definition require a BS test.

If such a weapon were to exist, for example (S/3/-), I'd rule you can't score multiple hits on a person but you could make it more difficult for the target to dodge the wall of flames by applying a negative modifier to his agility or dodge. A -10 or -20 seems reasonable and the attacker still doesn't need a BS test, he just uses more of his ammo to increase the chance of a single hit.

Strangely enough, the rules contradict themselves when it comes to evading flame attacks.

SPRAY

Spray weapons project a cone of missiles, liquid or fi re out to the range of the weapon. Unlike other weapons, Spray

weapons have just one range, and when fi red, hit all those in their area of effect. The wielder does not need to Test Ballistic

Skill; he simply fi res the weapon. All creatures in the weapon’s path, a cone-shaped area extending in a 30-degree arc from

the fi rer out to the weapon’s range, must make an Agility Test or be struck by the attack and take Damage normally.

Cover does not protect characters from attacks made by Spray weapons unless it completely conceals them. Because Spray

weapons make no roll to hit, they are always considered to hit targets in the body, and will Jam if the fi rer rolls a 9 on any of

his Damage dice (before adding any bonuses).

Evading Auto-Fire, Multiple Attacks, and Area Effect Attacks

Some attacks—such as those made with grenades, flamers, or guns firing semi-automatic or fully-automatic bursts,—are

especially difficult to avoid. When Dodging an area effect weapon (such as a flamer), a successful Dodge Test moves the

character to the edge of the area of effect, as long as it is no further away than the character’s Agility Bonus in metres. If

the character would need to move further than this to avoid the attack, then the Dodge Test automatically fails. When Evading

Full Auto or Semi-Auto Bursts, each Degree of Success on the Dodge Test negates one additional hit. When Evading Swift or Lightning Attacks, each Degree of Success on the Dodge or Parry Test negates one additional hit.

The first suggests Agility, the second Dodge. I guess quality control succesfully evaded the writers but unfortunately without telling us if they dodged or simply were agile….Every GM will have to decide on their own, I guess.

I personally disagree strongly with Zenoth's interpretation. I can see how and why he arrives at his conclusion but he effectively suggests two chances at dodging the flame attack. Which is a big no-no in my book. Multiple dodges is a highly controversial ability and is either a high level talent or part of a career. It shouldn't be a freebee.

The Agility test to avoid being hit is not the same as the Dodge Test that can be taken to negate a successful hit (from the failed Agility Test). A Semi-Auto Spray would score an additional hit for every two degrees of failure on the target's Agility Test. This could then be Dodged as normal.

And the Agility Test is NOT a second chance to Dodge - it's the to-hit roll inverted and placed under the control of the defender. It's effectively a base miss chance that depends on the agility of the target.

The rules state that you can use agility to escape the spray of a flame weapon (unless your maximum movement isnot enough to escape the flames, then you are always hit). If you fail your agility test, you are hit. No dodge.

So why should you suddenly get a dodge (e.g. effectively a second chance to escape the consquences of a flame attack) if the flamer can shoot more than once per round?

Note that the description in the rules only describe a single shot flamer (spray) and the area effect of a flamer (in the section on evading auto fire, multiple attacks and area effect attacks. I haven't found any multi-shot flame weapons in the books so this is all pure conjecture at this point. Flamers don't require a BS to hit so how can the attacker determine how many hits he scored (using the 2 MoS is 1 addtional hit)? Using agility MoS by the defender (as per the dodge rule to negate muttiple hits) to negate hits is all very fine but only works if you know how many hits were scored.

You can create multi-shot spray weapons with a Legacy of Rage weapon using the rules from Tome of Blood.

The rules state that you can use agility to escape the spray of a flame weapon (unless your maximum movement isnot enough to escape the flames, then you are always hit). If you fail your agility test, you are hit. No dodge.

So why should you suddenly get a dodge (e.g. effectively a second chance to escape the consquences of a flame attack) if the flamer can shoot more than once per round?

Note that the description in the rules only describe a single shot flamer (spray) and the area effect of a flamer (in the section on evading auto fire, multiple attacks and area effect attacks. I haven't found any multi-shot flame weapons in the books so this is all pure conjecture at this point. Flamers don't require a BS to hit so how can the attacker determine how many hits he scored (using the 2 MoS is 1 addtional hit)? Using agility MoS by the defender (as per the dodge rule to negate muttiple hits) to negate hits is all very fine but only works if you know how many hits were scored.

Under my view of the rules for Sprays that can Semi-Auto Burst:

1. Assume that all sprays hit

2. Test Ag to determine if hit

2a. If you succeed the Ag test: deduct for one spray for the inital success and an additional spray per two Degrees of Success (DoS)

2b. If you fail or can't get to the edge of the area of effect: you are hit by all sprays

3. Dodge(if you want to or can): Roll Ag+Dodge

3a. If you succeed: 1 spray is negated for inital success and an additional spray per DoS

3b. If you failed to dodge all sprays: you are hit by any remaining sprays

4. Roll Damage for all successful hits

4a. Pray your don't jam

Besides Terraneaux's note about a Legacy of Rage weapon, I cannot find any semi-auto burst spray weapon (even the venerable Macharian Handbook fan supplement from the DH forums does not list any such spray weapon).

That being said, I would side with ranoncles. I hate the idea that a player (or NPC) can get a bite at the apple twice for avoiding flame weapons. They are supposed to be dangerous weapons (particularly the heavy flamer), and there is a reason they were/are feared in real life.

@Zenoth: my group has house-ruled that you roll Ballistic Skill on spray weapons for the sole purpose of determining a jam, rather than determining jam on damage dice. This is for the sole reason of not having to wade through all the rules as you outlined above (plus any arguments over them) and then reach the damage dice rolling stage only to have a jam.

Besides Terraneaux's note about a Legacy of Rage weapon, I cannot find any semi-auto burst spray weapon (even the venerable Macharian Handbook fan supplement from the DH forums does not list any such spray weapon).

That being said, I would side with ranoncles. I hate the idea that a player (or NPC) can get a bite at the apple twice for avoiding flame weapons. They are supposed to be dangerous weapons (particularly the heavy flamer), and there is a reason they were/are feared in real life.

@Zenoth: my group has house-ruled that you roll Ballistic Skill on spray weapons for the sole purpose of determining a jam, rather than determining jam on damage dice. This is for the sole reason of not having to wade through all the rules as you outlined above (plus any arguments over them) and then reach the damage dice rolling stage only to have a jam.

All weapons can be avoided in two ways. The one firing the weapon can miss (represented by either a failed BS Test or, for Spray weapons, the target successfully making an Agility Test) or, failing that, the target can Dodge.

All weapons can be avoided in two ways. The one firing the weapon can miss (represented by either a failed BS Test or, for Spray weapons, the target successfully making an Agility Test) or, failing that, the target can Dodge.

HappyDaze beat me to the punch but this is what i was going to say. If you were to remove the dodge test then you made them more powerful than any other weapon in the game because there isn't the natural miss chance and dodge that every other weapon is subjected to.