We currently are playing via the rules (two GMs, so we want to keep all rules the same for simplicity's sake) and we've noticed that once you get over the hurdle of penetrating armor, toughness and then Wounds, it's a very short journey to 9 & 10 on the Crit charts which equal instant death.

I know DH is a "deadly" game, but I'm looking for House Rules suggestions to tweak our combat so more Maiming occurs. One thing we did do was switch to Aftermath's hit location chart. It's 00% based, so dice rolling isn't affected, but it has 20 hit locations. You can hit someone in the left hand or left elbow for instance, instead of just "Left Arm".

My players have a real problem...well it goes like this:

Inq: "Ok, we need to interrogate one, so try not to kill them all"

Scum: "Ok, I make a called shot for this guy's left leg. I want to cripple him so he can't get away." (Rolls Dice and calls results)

GM: (mumble, mumble, armor, mumble, toughness mumble) Ok, that's 6 points of damage, 5 of which are Critical. Roll it.

Scum: (Rolls a 5)

GM: Ok, 5+5 you blow his leg clean off and anyone within 3 meters needs to make an Agi test or slip in the pool of blood and gore....He's dead....

Know what I'm saying? Any easy suggestions? I'm thinking of extending the Crit charts out to 20 entries....

I have to admit I fail to see the problem with the rules as they are. Weapons kill - that's what they're mainly there for, that's what they do.

If I shoot someone, even in the leg (considering the major arteries there, especially in the leg!), I have to assume that I may kill him. If I don't want that, well, guess what shock batons and grappling are for.

By the way...

GM: (mumble, mumble, armor, mumble, toughness mumble) Ok, that's 6 points of damage, 5 of which are Critical. Roll it.

Scum: (Rolls a 5)

GM: Ok, 5+5 you blow his leg clean off and anyone within 3 meters needs to make an Agi test or slip in the pool of blood and gore....He's dead....

Where is that from? Critical damage is simply read from the table as soon as it's inflicted. There's no second roll. So in your example, the enemy would have the '5' result of the crit table: -20 agility and 1D5 fatigue (the latter will likely make him pass out).

Everything what Cifer said plus: in such a "Interrogation/Torture" scene, why use the normal combat system? Simply give him the shot into the leg, let him reel in pain, whine, cry, let your player poke in his wound. (Of course, someone with the Interrogation skill would inflict such pain in a much more refined way, since correct "Interrogation" is something like an artform )

Schwarzie said:

I think you missed the point

They want to capture a guy for interrogation.

Here's a shameless plug to my crit rules:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=100&efcid=3&efidt=31855

Otherwise, I'd happily rule that a PC can cause less severe damage than the dice would indicate if he takes the effort to make a called shot. E.g. the PC would still need to score a critical hit, but he could apply a less severe result. This is pretty much up to the players and GM to resolve.

Of course, if the PCs capture a mook that knows nothing then the next hour of gaming is going to be a waste. In that case the GM should have the mook conveniently die anyway.

-K

To me this sounds like the GM being lazy and to reliant on the game mechanics.

In the situation presented I would say it's up to the GM to go cinematic with the combat at the point when the player states he wants to captureincapacitate the victim, I mean suspect. The player rolls, hits, does damage, GM checks the chart and sees that they just blew off his leg and he's dead, GM over rules the chart and says something to the effect of...

GM: The goon is knocked over by the brutal wound (the player) just inflicted. He is bleeding badly from his wounds and won't last long.

GM: Give me an easy medicae test..

Pass: Goon won't last long (minutesseconds) without treatment. Give me another (appropriate difficulty) medicae check to patch the wound and keep the goon from death, but not really heal him. They cart the body back to their secondary or tertiary base for interogation once he wakes up.

Fail: GM generous = They get one question before he dies. GM not generous, The players pick up the goons lifeless body slapping it around in an attempt to wake him. Quickly realizing the goon is dead and will not be answering any questions. GM mean = While the players are slapping the lifeless corpse around an Arbites patrol comes along and sees the torture and mistreatment of human remains and proceeds to arrest them with extreme prejudice.

---

Don't get me wrong there is a time and place to kill the goon outright, but not always. More often than not the Players should win

What he said...

Sure, sure, weapons kill. I get it.

I'm merely pointing out that I (and my gaming group) would be more...satisfied...with more maiming results. (Especially my TechPriest because he relishes the opportunity to replace his limbs etc. and he's rather broke all the time) We feel it would be more "Fluffier" if there were more hacked off limbs and poked out eyes without the insta-death. Make the guy bleed for a turn or three before he snuffs it.

But I'm glad I started this thread as it was pointed out that I and the other GM may have both read the rules incorrectly. In fact, that may solve the problem. Our understanding was that if you shot a guy and did say...2pts over his wound total, then you rolled a d10+2 and consulted the appropriate Crit chart. Damage cumulative, if the same guy took 4pts the next round, the Crit Chart roll would be d10+6.

No wonder we're finding the system "too" deadly. Thanks!

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Try this. when a NPC hits Critical he tends to not really be in the mood to fight anymore. i do not know if you use the none crit NPC system, ie declare npc dead when he is the crit stage, but i usually sat if an NPC is at this stage he is lieing on the floor too badly wounded to move. also if it is a Major NPC and he is in critical damage i give the players a +30 to intimadate to get him to drop weapon and surender, he just to hurt to want to fight any more. Means that they can get more people to interagate.

We had the exact same scenario occur in my last campaign. That is the reason that the Pull Blow rule in my optional rules post was created. Check it out and see if it suits your players. The forum thread is here:

ShortBusFury's Optional Rules

As an addencdum, I like the path that ItsUncertainWho was suggesting. Relying too heavily on game mechanics can make a simple idea a long drawn-out affair that is not likely to end in a desireable result. Example:

Player: "I'm going to cut off his pinky" (rolls damage, emperor's fury, the guy 'splodes in a raind of boody death)

Combat rules should be left out of the story-telling and social puzzles in the game. Ask what the character is doing then give a couple of rolls for the player to make based on the situation. You don't need to determine wounds, fatigue, or crits unless the poor sod gets involved in a fire-fight. If that ever arises, simply look how he turned out in your story-telling and apply any wounds or injuries as you see fit. For instance, if cutting off the pinky was the extent of the injury, I would apply 1 wound and a -10% to any actions requiring the use of that hand due to pain.