In turn one ship A moves and then ship B runs square into the back of it.

In turn two both ships take a forward 2 straight. the ships will end touching as they did at the start but does this count as a collision

i.e. lose actions

In my opinion yes, but you'll find people arguing that 'touching' isn't treated the same as 'overlapping.'

Pretty sure this is specifically addressed in the FAQ.

Grimwalker said:

I am assuming you are refering to this from the FAQ which i must first say I had not seen, my appologies.

Q: If a ship’s base overlaps an obstacle

during the previous round, is that ship

automatically considered overlapping the

same obstacle during the next round?

A: No. The ship does not move through or overlap that

same obstacle unless the maneuver template it is

using or its base

after executing the maneuver

overlap that obstacle again during the next round.

This would I am extrapolating mean I can indead perform the same straight with ship A and ship B and still gain an action from both.

Has also made me now think that if i was touching the back of an enemy ship and we both moed the same straight forward then i would be able to shoot at it next turn.

Sorry for the tiny writting don't know what my computer is playing at….. probably my fault tho

Q: Can two ships be considered touching if neither ship overlapped the other ship during this round? A: No

Be aware that a starfighters base is longer than the 1 straight marker by about 1mm. If the rear ship B move first in the second round it would end up overlapping the front ship A, moving back to it's original location, and missing it's turn. The front ship A could then carry on unhindered.

Also the template alignment lugs on the front and back of the bases make the bases even longer in some instances.

Darkheart said:

I said it somewhere else, maybe on BGG, but I think this is deliberate--if the base and the 1-Move were *exactly* the same, then you'd be prone to a lot more fiddly movement and collisions and near-collisions and arguments over whether this or that was overlapping or not. Making it so you need a 2-move minimum opens up the range and allows for more freedom of movement.

To the OP, I would say that the smart move is not to put your ships touching in the first place. Half a base width between your ships opens up your movement options drastically.

Bazinga said:

This.

Bases in physical contact are not necessarily considered "touching" in terms of the rules. Ships are only "touching" if one of the ships overlapped the other in that maneuver phase.

So, for example, two ships start side by side with bases in physical contact. Both ships move straight forward the same amount each turn. Their bases will be in contact each turn, but the two ships are not touching, and neither ships will lose actions, because neither ship overlapped the other while maneuvering.

I see players make this error all the time. Some players think that when the bases " bump" But don't over lap that this is tuching. Physical yes. In the game NO. if this was an issue they would have made the FAQ say …. Look at the example they show the ship 15%+ base over the other ship. Not the .0001 mm touching. LOL

For some people this makes their heads melt.

DavidWa said:

In our games, if you're holding down the template and the placement of your ship shifts another ship or asteroid token even a millimeter, it's a collision. The 15% base overlapping you see in the instructions is for visual clarity, not a benchmark of what counts as overlapping. You need to be able to put your mini flat on the tabletop without elbowing anything out of the way even slightly.

If, by some stroke of luck, you manage to *just barely* fit and touch without overlapping: yahtzee. Otherwise, the FAQ rule about touching is to cover situations where two ships who overlapped last turn and are now in base contact, execute the same maneuver and wind up in precisely the same orientation--but because they were touching before and touching after doesn't mean they overlaped.

Wots Your opinion on two ships standing side by side, and booth making hard 1 turn right.

They overlap with those little bumpers, so they should be treated as overlapping? Is that true, because a lot of people I know disagree with that interpretation.

Miko said:

Yes, they are physically overlapping at that point; they're physically part of the base and they do prevent two ships cheek-to-cheek from making the same hard turn. The guides are only ignored when measuring range and firing arc, per the rulebook.

I see players make this error all the time. Some players think that when the bases " bump" But don't over lap that this is tuching. Physical yes. In the game NO. if this was an issue they would have made the FAQ say …. Look at the example they show the ship 15%+ base over the other ship. Not the .0001 mm touching. LOL

For some people this makes their heads melt.

I'm a little confused by touching now...

I agree that touching and overlapping are two different things but touching is not touching?

What about firing when touching Rules Page 17:

Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching . As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies.

I'm a little confused by touching now...

I agree that touching and overlapping are two different things but touching is not touching?

What about firing when touching Rules Page 17:

Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching . As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies.

Say an X-Wing ends its movement overlapping a TIE Fighter.

- The X-Wing would get placed behind the TIE in physical base-to-base contact and they'd be considered touching b/c their movement overlapped on this turn.

- The X-Wing can't shoot at the TIE b/c they're in b2b.

Next turn, the TIE moves a Straight 3 and performs its action. Then the X-Wing also performs a Straight 3.

- Even though they'll end up in b2b contact, their movement did not cause them to overlap, so they're not considered touching.

- The X-Wing can perform an action.

- The X-Wing can shoot at the TIE.

If you're a racing fan, think of it as drafting. LOL

- EDIT - the key to this is the second sentence you quoted: "As soon as either of these ships moves away (so that the bases are no longer touching), this combat restriction no longer applies." In my example, as soon as the TIE Fighter moved away from the X-Wing, the touching condition ended and the TIE became a legal target for the X-Wing. Then, even though the X-Wing pulled the same maneuver, since the models bases would not overlap, they aren't considered "touching" by the game's mechanics.

Next turn, the TIE moves a Straight 3 and performs its action. Then the X-Wing also performs a Straight 3.

- Even though they'll end up in b2b contact, their movement did not cause them to overlap, so they're not considered touching.

- The X-Wing can perform an action.

- The X-Wing can shoot at the TIE.

If you're a racing fan, think of it as drafting. LOL

I understand that the X-Wing can perform and action. I don't understand why it can shoot when the rules state otherwise? You're saying touching is only sometimes touching which I'm not sure I'm seeing that.

The rules state: "Ships whose bases are touching cannot declare each other as a target during the Combat phase while their bases remain touching ." It goes on to state: "As soon as either of these ships moves away ( so that the bases are no longer touching ), this combat restriction no longer applies." I added the emphasis.

Once a ship moves the bases are no longer touching... but after everyone moves they are indeed touching at the end of everyone movement. Maybe they're not overlapping but they are touching. And according to the rules touching ships cannot declare each other as a target.

What am I missing, or are we saying touching only sometimes counts as touching and FFG made a mistake in the rules. Like I said I may be missing it, which I have found happens quite often. The bright side, I may be slow but it is how I learn.

FFG made a mistake in the rules

You have to take into account that the rule about touching is a part of the Overlapping Other Ships section (pg 17) so those rules only apply if the ships' bases have overlapped. And thus why FFG had to have the FAQ about two ships not considered touching if they didn't overlap each other during this round .

The FAQ overrides the rule as written.

In this context, "touching" isn't actually the physical act of two models being in b2b with each other, its a game mechanic term. FFG should have used a different term, like Base-to-Base, along with a specific definition of what does and doesn't trigger the condition.

Ah, that is different!

You said the FAQ which I consider as part of the rules and in this case a part which I missed. My mistake.

Thank you for pointing it out to me.

No worries. Bazinga quoted the FAQ rule several posts back, so I didn't bother to specify it in my first post.

Oops, I missed that, my embarrassed look.

I just realized I was unconsciously using terminology from when I was playing MWDA--"Base Contact" as the specific condition that impacts combat. Two ships overlapped this turn, they're in base contact. Next turn after their maneuver, even if they're physically touching as long as they were able to put the base flat on the table without shifting the other, they're not in base contact. Sometimes I've even had rare instances where that happened organically, two ships just got REALLY close and touched but didn't overlap, as per the FAQ, they're not in base contact.

Following this thread, you basicaly have to remember which ships bases are touching because they collided and which are "touching" without colliding?

Since as per the FAQ, the ones that did not collide can do actions and attack eachother.

Oposite to the overlaping an obstacle rules, were no ship can attack if its overlaping an obstacle at the bigining of the combat phase, ships with their bases touching at the beggining of the combat phase may still be able to attack eachother.

This is rather confusing to me since you need to keep track which ships are touching because they collided and which did not.

ships with their bases touching at the beggining of the combat phase may still be able to attack eachother.

No. No ship may ever attack a ship its touching. Rulebook pg 10, step 1. "A ship cannot target a ship if their bases are touching."

Overlapping and Touching are two different game concepts. You lose your Action for overlapping, not for touching. Touching another ship means that you can't shoot at it.

This thread has been about the possibility of touching a model w/out first having overlapped it. Which is possible. In that (rare) instance, both ships would get to perform their actions, but they still couldn't shoot at each other.

Not quite true

From the FAQ

No. No ship may ever attack a ship its touching. Rulebook pg 10, step 1. "A ship cannot target a ship if their bases are touching."

Except Arvel Crynyd.

You're right Ken. This thread has been dead for so long that I just posted the opposite of what I said last summer!