When I first started playing this game the Imperial swarm squad seemed to dominate but now, when I read regional reports or watch batreps, the Imperial swarm seems to have disappeared in favor of small elite squads such as Vader, Fel, and Phennir (all three kitted out).

Are swarms no longer viable or is the lure of super-powered Imperials just too hard to resist? I have a tournie in two days and even I am second-guessing myself about my standard TIE swarm and am thinking about using a smaller squad of elite pilots.

Locally, the Tie Swarm has dropped to 5 or 6 ships. At least that's the most common builds I've been seeing.

One aspect of strategy (especially often overlooked by those new to the game) are the location of the asteroids.

The greater number of ships you have, the more you will wish to ensure open areas for the swarm to bring the full weight of its numbers to bear (or comfortably maneuver two groups of 3 or 4). Conversely, for those rebels who inevitably field fewer vessels, will seek to place asteroid placement to disrupt such a formation.

The first time I played, the other guy had initiative and I followed his lead in placing asteroids… After Vader’s Force Choke as punishment for my ineptness and disastrous loss of my ships, I took a minute to think about what I learned. A re-play with the same guy and same squads went from him mopping me up to me having him on the ropes, though he did win with the Falcon in the end.

Two things I learned, and why I am writing, swarms are effective if you A) Critically assess the location of the asteroids (and in a tournament, place the three that you get to place to “that guy’s” determent) and B) study tactics (how vessels abreast turn (at various lateral spacing) with respect to one another.) A single asteroid be mostly ignored if you already have a flight plan which allows you split around it. (For example, try to consider the maneuver you are planning now AND what options that will give you for the next turn as well. I have seen done (and done it myself) where you position yourself aggressively for the moment, but end up out of the fight on the subsequent round. Swarm, or not, you need to keep up the pressure.) Spend a few minutes working though this exercise and your ability to relentlessly pursue the enemy will improve. Also, know when to pull back of reform the swarm, my second game (mentioned above) only broke down because I failed to maintain the integrity (and lethality) of the swarm after the first two passes.

RogueMorgan

RogueMorgan said:

Maintaining unit cohersion is a huge downside to swarms. Trying to realign a half dozen ships so that their concentrated fire can be effective after the furball has started is exceedingly difficult. My TIE swarm usually moves in sync until the first pass but then is scattered because of maneuvering difficulties with asteroids, enemy starfighters, and even my own TIEs. Once the formation is broken, the Rebels often can prey on isolated stragglers as I desperately try to regroup for another pass.

I would recommending maintaining a "minimum arrangement." More specifically, if you can fly a Firespray/YT-1300 you can fly TIE Fighters in pairs. Think of flying 4 “Leader & Wingman” pairs as what you fall back to when pressed. While there are some situations when flying one off is unavoidable short of suicide, make an effort to visualize how one of the large ships would react.

To that end, try to work in a spaces big enough for a large ship to be in, working with less space forces you to make sacrifices to your agility/effectiveness, especially when the other guy has his ships entangled. Personally, I have not attempted to fly the whole squad as a unit, that is simply too much and restricts the TIE fighters maneuverability, which is one of its strengths. I prefer to start Group "1" moving slowly so as to allow the Group "2" or Group "3" to approach quickly, ideally striking in concert, but more importantly to allow at least one group to exit to hot pursuit. Of course, this is a generalization as there are many ways the enemy can take shape. But the essence is to avoid thinking of the Swarm as "all one" or "weak individuals". Attrition is a part of playing the swarm, granted, but "swam(s)" maintain their threatening posture until near the end.

I have found so much of the success of a swarm tends to revolve around how much free space they have to maneuver. I feel confident that how/where you set up your ships in relation to how the asteroids are placed will affect much of your success early on in the battle. Rehearsals give you better ideals of what to expect, much like playing chess.

RogueMorgan

Stormtrooper721 said:

the popularity of larger ships has played a part in the demise of the swarm. lots of players jumped ship when wave2 arrived so they could play slaves and falcons. the swarm isnt as popular as it used to be but it is still powerful. new upgrade options have lured some to play less but more tricked out ships. why play 8 ties when u can play 5 of them with a combination of intercepters which have better firepower? id say many people grew tired of playing with and against tie swarms of 6+ ships. swarms are still good. there are just other options out there that you can win with now.

I have never flown a swarm (I don't have enough Ties) so I learned to fly wth Vader and 3 named Ties. I have recently dropped a ship to try 3 elite pilots exactly how you said, Vader, Squad leader, homing missles, stealth, Soontir, ptl, Stealth and Tur with marksmanship. I have not lost with this list vs rebels as I can usually take a target ship out in the second turn and then keep my distance as I find a new target.

I have not beaten a Tie swarm with it which is why I most likely take it to regonals. I am going to swap Vader for a flyspray of some description to see if it helps vs swarms.

The Swarm is probably still in the top 3 of most powerful builds around. They just don't get played as much since a lot of players, especially new players won't even buy 7-8 Tie Fighters, and first minute players realized that on tournaments your Tie Swarm goes to time pretty often. I had a strong didlike for swarms as in wave 1 they really were unbeatable if played correctly. They just had the edge in firepower, hull strength/agility over anything else.

Now in Wave 2 this has changed to some extent but there is still no other squad bringing 16 attack dice/turn (okay its only 2 per ship) with 24 hull, the possibility of 3 agility plus evade on any ship necessary. There are now some teams a le to beat it, but i would rally like to see if any composition can do more than 50% wins against a 7 or 8 Tie Swarm respectively.

Well, I took a TIE swarm anyhoo and was unbeaten. I posted it in the batrep section in a video. I used:

"Dark Curse" with Stealth, Alpha Squadron Pilot with Stealth, and 5 Academy Pilots

I spread out my TIEs and used a pincer attack to envelope my enemies (as you'll see in the video). My TIEs got all tangled up in the furball that ensued but so did my enemies and with all that bumping around the big ships especially got no actions, couldn't escape, and were anihilated by all those TIEs firing 3 attack dice each at range 1.

The TIE swarm still lives!

Personally, I've been favouring a 6 ship build in the tournaments, but I'll happily fly 7 or 8. In fact, was flying (5) Acadmies & (3) Obisdians today =^,^=

The shiny new toys are fun to play with, but full swarms are still quite viable and rule!

Actually, I was so impressed with my regular TIE Fighters that I'm thinking of going back up to 8 TIEs using "Dark Curse" with 7 Academy Pilots.

I was initially scared that regular TIEs would become obsolete with the new stuff out and that their lack of firepower would be a liability, but in the furball at range 1, even a regular TIE is getting 3 attack dice and with so many firing it was a slaughter.

As well, I was deliberately bumping TIEs into the paths of enemy ships to take away their actions and that really shut down the synergy of my opponent's squads. Having more TIEs to fly such interference would be extremely beneficial.

I'm still running into the problem of my own TIEs running into each other and causing myself to lose actions, however.

Also, regrouping all those TIEs after the first pass is difficult. In the last game I played (in the video of my last batrep in the "Battle Report" section), I had 6 TIEs left in the final 3 turns but could only ever one or two to get a shot on my opponent's final X-Wing.

There are advantages and disadvantages to swarms.

I have been spreading my swarm out as well and coming in from all angles (as seen in the video) to minimize the danger of Assault Missiles. None of my opponents in my last tournament used AMs, but I practiced the maneuver anyway so I'd be proficient at it. It's difficult to move in such a spread out formation and still be able to close in to concentrate fire.

My swarm philosophy is "do not fear collisions, but manage them well". I make sure the front rank or other key ships do not collide with each other. I don't mind risking rear rank squadron pilots colliding if they are setting up a conga line of concentrated fire and/or positioning into a column for the next turn's movement and attack. Gaining a desired position through collision is as useful as using a barrel-roll.

i like a few 6-7 ship swarms squads ive seen.

4x academy + howlrunner + dark curse + alpha squadron

4x academy + dark curse + 2x alpha squadron

4x academy + howrunner/swarm tactics + avenger squadron

2x academy + howrunner/swarm tactics + avenger squadron + 2x alpha squadron

i only own 6 standard tie fighters so this sort of swarm appeals

My guess as to why there are less Tie swarms floating about is because of a two main reasons:

A) More choice. With new options the tie swarm may have dropped from some folks favorite strategey to second or third. Not because they're not as good but just because there are some things people like a little more.

B) The assault missile. Tie swarms seemed to be extremly popular and effective in wave one so when wave two gave use a splash damage option a lot of people probably jumped on it and in turn caused a bunch of less dedicated swarmers to abandon ship.

I flew a swarm yesterday: (Caveat: we were deliberately playing from the Wave 1 pool)

HowlRunner

-Swarm Tactics

Mauler Mithel

-Squad Leader

Dark Curse

Backstabber

Night Beast

Black Squadron Pilot

My Buddy’s Squad

Wedge Antilles

-R5-D8

Gray Squadron Pilot

-Ion Cannon Turret

Rookie Pilot

Rookie Pilot

The swarm proved quite effective, despite a less than stellar round of piloting by myself. The extensive use of Evade really minimize his attack runs. The game ran about 3-1/2 hours, albeit well short of tournament standards.

RogueMorgan

I would agree with the statement that TIE swarms aren't any less viable, but that the viability of smaller Empire builds in wave 2 just means that Empire players have more options, so you don't see the swarm as often. I faced a brutal swarm in a regional last month where Howlrunner flew with 4 low-skill Interceptors. Personally, I prefer the smaller Empire builds, and run Kath Scarlett, Darth Vader, and Night Beast as my squad.

Word here in the Bay area is that the regional champion won by a TIE Swarm at Kublacon… though I also hear they were playing fast and hard by the rules and ignored a lot of key things (Like moving exactly point-to-point by template. He'd move one by template and then hand-move the rest).

TIE Swarms are stil powerful because you have plenty of attack oppertunities and loosing one fighter doesn't mean as much. Assault missiles are still the bane of swarm lists, but if your opponent does not take them, fly your TIEs in a brick of fighters, target the same fighter, and open up. I've downed even large ships in this way.

If swarms aren't run all the time then what are people switching over to? Double Firespray?

I like the large swarm squad along with the small grand squads, all depends on the mood. Time management is the issue with the swarm, so even in the hay day I limited mine to 6 TIE's. I prefer to run my TIE's in groups of three, wether this is only 3 ships I have on the board or maybe a swarm of six. Again with the time issue, if I were to jump in anotrher tournament I think I would bring the double Firespray squad and not worry about my time management at all.

Red Comet said:

With or without 1-3 Firesprays, there are a large variety of viable options for Imperial builds of 3-8 ships. There is no reason for everyone to run similar lists, and so that's not happening.