Hello everybody!

We play Xwing at work a lot of the time during lunch breaks and we've noticed a serious pattern developing…

Most of the time, the Imperials lose. And when I say most of the time, I mean we've played several dozen games and the Imperials have won maybe 2 games total.

-It's not the players, since we sort of randomize the teams. Basically it goes as such:

-120 points per side.

-2v2 (or 2v1 if someone isn't in)

-Player 1, 2, 3, and 4. One day it could be: 1,2 vs 3,4. Next time it might be: 2,4 vs 1,3. Etc..

No matter the combination, the Rebels win by a landslide.

What are we doing wrong? The Imperials have tried everything from TIE swarms, to Howlrunner support, to High Pilot-Skill teams… Nothing works. At all.

Rebels will use things like: Wedge w/ Expose flying in formation with Biggs with the Astro that recovers shields. Sometimes Han Solo with a Ywing and Xwing escort. Also we have a habit of giving Engine upgrades to anything that doesn't natively have Boost because it's so darn handy for getting away. (Both sides)

Looks like we need to go back to the Academy. What can Imperials do to effectively do… ANYTHING?!

focus fire on one target….use numbers to your advantage (blocking ships---no actions)….use native maneuverability of Imps to your advantage. Try to stay out of range one of Falcons!

TheAngryTemplar said:

Point 1: It might stil be the players. Playing the Empire takes different tactics than the Rebels. So you could all be good at flying the rebels and bad at flying the Empire.

Point 2: Is there a reason you are playing at 120 points. I am not sure but I think 120 points messes a bit with the game balance. I think it might favor the Rebels. At 100 points the rebellion has to make some hard descisions, do you want 3 skilled / well-upgraded pilots or far cheaper pilots with more ships. I find I can take one good pilot (wedge) and 3 really cheap ships, or 5 ships if they all are cheap. I haven't played at 120, but I think it might not force the Rebels to make the hard descision that 100 does.

Point 3: What are your Imperial Squadrons look like? I find that the skill 1 pilots, particulaly the Academy pilots are gold in the Imperial list. The Empire shines best when they outnumber the rebels 2 to 1, especially if the rebels have high skilled pilots or are well upgraded. Other people on these forums seem to have different experiences, but I have not had much success with many upgrades in my imperial lists. I usually only take a single upgrade on my whole squadron and it is usually vetran instincts or swarm tactics (both are pretty cheap). I really avoid TIE advanced loaded out with missiles.

Point 4: Kill Biggs, then wedge. Kill Big's first. Shoot every single fighter you can at him every single round. Wedge with his expose will only be dangerouse until Bigs is dead. If you kill Biggs in a round or two his shield-regenerating droid woun't help him much. Once Biggs is dead Wege should be your next target with or without expose.

Hrathen said:

I find that this makes the biggest difference. I switch back and forth between Rebels and Imps, and i win with both sides about equally. Its a little easier to play with the Rebels in my opinion. Fly a couple x-wings down the middle dishing out damage, recovering shields, doing k-turns all over the place. Fly the falcon in a circle around the imp ships shooting every time, re-roliing dice on a regular basis with target locks, Han, Gunner. Pretty easy to learn how to be effective with Rebels.

The imps require a different tactic. With superior maneuverablity, barrel rolls, boost, its more about flying skill and staying out of enemy arcs. My suggestion is spend some time developing some good flying tactics, especially for the initial pass. As was also suggested, gang up on one ship if possible. I tend to focus on the Falcon, which some might disagree with, but the Falcon is the only ship whose arc i can never get out of, so if i can take him down within a few turns, its much easier to avoid damage from the other ships. And with only 1 evade dice, it can go down pretty fast.

As far as what ships to take, I go against the conventional here as well. I love taking Firespray and a couple of Interceptors and maybe one Tie Fighter. Less ships, but Im not really a fan of the tie swarm. Having to keep a large chunk of your ships flying in formation makes it hard to keep them out of enemy arcs, which, for me, kind of defeats the purpose of imperial ships.

And I would also agree to do 100 pt squads. Bigger games are fun, but they also tend to get cluttered, which again makes it hard to fly your ships effectively. This hurts the Imps more than the rebels in my opinion as well.

Hrathen said:

Hrathen said:

Totally possible… If this is the case, I'd like to learn how to play Imperials. Sort of hoping to redeem them in the future in our group.

Hrathen said:

we play so that each person gets 60 points each. 50 seemed really limiting to each player and it made it awkward for the Rebels since they'd have only enough room for 1 ship each and their spare points would make a 3rd. at that point the problem was who gets stuck with one ship(thusly one who'd get taken out and have to sit out the rest of the game). Though thinking about it that way, you could very well be right… maybe 120 isn't a good point limit…

Hrathen said:

Things like:

-Howlrunner with a bunch of low level TIEs. Interceptor thrown in for good measure…

-All high level Pilots (TIEs, ADVs, and Interceptor mixes)

-Kath Scarlet w/ upgrades + 2 TIE Advanceds…

It's usually two people making up a half-list each (for both sides) though we often run it by one another first, to see if there's conflicts or whatnot.

Hrathen said:

I understand the reason behind the larger games for a 4 person setup. 60 points a person makes sense. The other factor in this though may be how each team chooses their ships. If both players want to fly an Advanced for example, you may have Vader and Marek on the board, but that may not be a good way to spend half or more of the points. So players may need to make sacrifices to get the best overall team. Your partner wants to fly Vader in an advance, so you take a couple of academy pilots or Soontir, even if you wanted to fly an advance. Maybe having each person pick his own ships doesn't make for the best overall team.

Which leads me to my next issue with team games. The rulebook says that in team games, teamates can't show each other their dials and all discussion must take place where the other team can hear you. This is lame, and i think it hurts the Imps more than rebels because Imps are more dependent on flying skillfully and not running into each other. In a real dogfight, pilots would be able to talk to each other on a frequency that the enemy can't hear. My house rule is to allow secret conversation between team mates and even let them show each other their dials. I think this evens the fight a little more.

Hrathen said:

I have played many games at 100 and 120 points and have not found a real issue increasing the points. I prefer 120 points at the moment and we actually have the situation where the rebels are losing at 120 points a bit more than the Imperials. It all comes down to skill of the player with the faction they are playing.

At a glance i think its the format you are playing that is skewing your results towards rebels. its not so much the 120 points versus 100pts thing its more that the synergy (if there is any) within your squad may be lost. for example Howlrunner really shines when it is supported by 3 other ships, using close formation flying with howrunner near the back (staying at long-med range) and the front line ships flying at close-med range benefitting from the rerolls.

quite a nice tactic for imperials using a slave1 is to split into two wings, this works quite well when u have gunner and/or HLC upgrades.

it might be there needs to be more coordination from the imperial players both when they are moving (tactics) and when selecting ships… for example one player might want to take the lower skilled pilots and the other the higher skilled ones which establishes a 'wave 1' and 'wave 2' movement sequence where wave 1 (lesser pilots) move and block or move and attack a single target with the goal of stripping that ship of any focus token making it more vulnerable to a wave2 attack. giving each imperial player a set objective for example "block enemy movement and deny them of actions where possible" or "focus fire on a key enemy ship until its dead" might be worth considering.

here are some 60/120 point imperial squads that might work:

TEAM NAME: The Avengers

player 1: Bounty Hunter[HULK] + Gunner + seismic charge, Avenger Squadron[THOR] (60)

player 2: Alpha Squadron[CAPT AMERICA], 3x Academy Pilot[bLACK WIDOW/HAWKEYE/SHIELD AGENT], Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics[iRONMAN] (60)

TEAM NAME: Advanced Assault

player 1: darth vader + assault missiles + swarm tactics, 2x academy pilot (60)

player 2: maarek steele + assault missiles + push the limit, 2x academy pilot (59)

TEAM NAME: 8 Ball

player 1: 5x academy pilot (60)

player 2: 3x sabre squadron (60)

TEAM NAME: Dark Tide

player 1: Soontir Fel+PTL + bounty hunter (63)

player 2: 3x academy pilot, howlrunner+swarm (57)

TEAM NAME: The Avengers

player 1: Bounty Hunter[HULK] + Gunner + seismic charge, Avenger Squadron[THOR] (60)

player 2: Alpha Squadron[iRONMAN], 3x Academy Pilot[CAPTAIN AMERICA/HAWKEYE/SHIELD AGENT], Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics[bLACK WIDOW] (60)

Barrel roll is one of the best abilities Imperials have-if you aren't facing a Falcon or Ion-turret, you can smoke rebels with ease-Wedge and Biggs mean nothing if they never get to shoot you. Imperials may be a bit trickier, but their abilities are definitely based on flight and maneuverability, and they excel at both. When we play, the rebels lose 70% of the time. I've only had close losses with them (a single hullpoint remaining for the opponent), and I've seen them win 3 games, but they've also lost 7 games. Every time Imperials have won, they've outflown the Rebels-and it's usually come down to barrel rolls. The way you get to place your ship is VERY important and VERY powerful. Turr Fennar belongs in every list too-barrel rolling AFTER shooting? Yes please.

Hey guys,

We tried dropping the ponts back down to 100 on Friday, sure enough the Imperials won!

Granted, massively lucky die rolls kept Soontir alive for like 5 turns longer than he should have been… lol.

It sure felt more balanced (I played Rebels in this particular game, btw). The Rebels didn't feel like they had the usual "ok who do I stomp first?" thing that we usually find. Having to sacrifice a few upgrades really brought those powerhouse ships down.

Though sitting and really thinking about the upgrades and ship prices, I'm not entirely sure why this is… I may take the time to do some serious mathhammer on the ship price vs killy-ness and ship price vs survivability etc.. (Purely because I'm interested in doing it.)

TheAngryTemplar said:

I thought you did mathhammer for warhammer? You will be pioneering the art of MathWing