Have a couple of questions about Kraznys - The Ravens Song / F 65

Challenges: If it is Summer, choose an opponent's attachment in play. Pay that attachment's printed gold cost to take control of that attachment, and attach it to a card of your choice.

There is a limitation on the card text - once per attachment per phase

1) Can I use Kraznys to take control of two different copies of an non-unique attachment in the same challenge phase

I assumed the restriction meant that I could not try or take control of the same card more than once but someone has suggested it is only one copy of any attachment

2) I assume there is no gold penalty as the card is already in play and I am only taking control of it

3) Can I take control of cards that I already control - thus enabling me to move them onto other characters

4) I assume that if an attachment is cost zero, I can just take control of it

HastAttack said:

1. One per attachment per phase indicates you can do it multiple times, so long as you choose a different atttachment each time. YOu cannot choose the same attachment again, even if you failed to take control of it. This restriction is mostly to prevent ridiculous infinite loops with two Kraznys's in play.

2. It says "printed cost", so you only pay the number of gold coins on the card, OOH penalties ignored (note; OOH gold penalties only apply to *playing* a card, which you are not doing anyway)

3. You have to choose an opponent's attachment in play. I'd have to double check precedent, but I believe that means owned (but not necessarily controlled) by an opponent, so you could in fact do so provided it was an opponent's card. YOu would pay it's printed gold cost to take control of it (redundant) and attach it to a card of your choice (not necessarily redundant).

4. Yes.

Sorry - but I still need a bit of clarificaiton on the one attachment

One per attachment per phase indicates you can do it multiple times, so long as you choose a different atttachment each time. YOu cannot choose the same attachment again, even if you failed to take control of it. This restriction is mostly to prevent ridiculous infinite loops with two Kraznys's in play.

That was my understanding of the restriction - once per physical card - and it is to prevent continouos changes

I was hit with an Iron Throne to cancel one attempt and I assumed that meant I could not try to take that same attachment twice

The big issue though is multiple copies of non-uniques

So my oponent has two copies of Art of Diplomacy - on two different characters - in my mind these are two totally separate cards that just happen to have the same name

Can I take both of them or does the restriction limit me to only taking control of one

1. The once per attachment isn't a restriction on success, but initiation (Like any other limit; Limited Responses, Limit 1/Challenge, Limit 1/Phase - it doesn't matter if it was cancelled, it still counts against the limit). If it was cancelled by the Iron Throne, you won't be able to attempt it (on that attachment) again this phase. Next phase, though…

2. The limit is per physical card, not per attachment card name. If he has two Art of Diplomacy, you can steal them both.

Thanks

The limit is per physical card, not per attachment card name. If he has two Art of Diplomacy, you can steal them both.

Exactly what I wanted to hear

I was getting confused with another card with regards to taking control of an attachment that I already controlled

It was Crown of Meereen that I was thinking about

Response: After you win a challenge in which attached character participated, choose an attachment. Take control of that attachment, and attach it to an eligible card of your choice.

I assume that on this one I can take control of any attachment controlled by any player - including my own

"An opponent's attachement" refers to control, not ownership. Most situations refer only to control, anyway. The owner is referred to when cards leave play (A Game of Cyvasse, Abandoned Fort) or in the rules for duplicates.

-Istaril said:

Technically, would have to be next round ( Challenges: action)

Is it really possible to take control of a card I already control? Sounds strange…

It would fail, like trying to kneel a card that is already kneeling. But that doesn't prevent you from trying.

Khudzlin said:

I need to clarification on this one - does Fail mean I would not be allowed to do this?

: After you win a challenge in which attached character participated, choose an attachment. Take control of that attachment, and attach it to an eligible card of your choice.

Isn't this a case of fulfilling the first part "Choose an Attachment"? - done

The rest follows on

Take Control - no need as I already control the attachment in this case

Attach it to an eligable card - fine, that's what I want to do - attach it to a different character than the one it is currently on

There's no THEN clause - i.e. take control THEN attach

Which part of the rules would stop me applying Crown of Meereen's response to an attachment that I already control?

thanks

There is absolutely no rule that prevents you from targeting an attachment you control with Crown of Meeren. For the same reason, you can target a standing card with Kingdom of Shadows, provided it has the shadow crest or target a standing character with Distinct Mastery, provided it has a non-shadow crest. This is what I mean by "you can still try".

Now, consider You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf. "Choose and kneel a non- character. Then, that character claims 1 power." The target requirement is "a non- character" (it might be kneeling or standing). But if it is already kneeling, it isn't successfully knelt, so it doesn't claim 1 power. This is what I mean by "it fails".

I think an effect "failing" to resolve is a little misunderstood. Failure to resolve doesn't always mean the effect does nothing. It just means not all parts of the effect were successful. This could be intentional because you may only want to use part of the effect.

Frozen Outpost is an example:

Challenges: Kneel Frozen Outpost to choose and stand 1 defending character. Until the end of the challenge,that character gets +2 STR (+4 STR instead if it is a character).

You may use this to choose a standing defending character. Because the STR bonus is not dependent on standing the character(missing "then"), you can use this to give that character +2(or +4) STR even if they did not stand. The effect itself did not resolve successfully, but the intended use of the effect is to give a defending character added STR bonus.

Generally the only time you care about the effect resolving successfully is when it has a "then" clause or you have a response to play to what the effect did successfully.

Ok, so the attachment will move or remains where it is? If I understood correctly it can be moved (there is no "then" in crown of meereen…). Or it can't be moved because I fail to take control of it(I already control it)?

You can move it regardless of whether you already control it. There is no dependance.