Personal scale weapons can't do any damage to vehicle scale targets.

Even the Missile Tube (the most "powerful" weapon) can only harm vehicles with Armor 2 or less, but can't do nothing to vehicles with Armor 3 or more (like an AT-PT).

I was thinking about a Quality (for personal scale weapons only) like this:

Anti-Vehicle: Every success gives +5 damage against Vehicle scale targets (instead of +1 damage).

So, every 2 successes, it would increase the damage done against vehicles by 1 (since 10 personal scale damage = 1 vehicle scale damage).

This Quality could be added to all personal weapons that have the Breach Quality.

What do you think?

I think Breach covers this already. Just give a shoulder-fired-armor-piercing-anti-tank-weapon a high breach rating and it makes it pretty deadly to pretty much all things. Certainly wouldn't be common, would certainly be highly expensive, and most definately restricted everywhere to military only. Have fun killing tanks!

E

Why not just "make" a man portable weapon and describe it as Vehicle Scale for purposes of damage.

Kallabecca said:

Because if the Missile Tube is not a vehicle scale weapon, I don't know what could be…

Another "problem" I see is that personal weapons will always do a fixed amount of damage (since extra successes will do nothing, unless you get 10 or more…). So even a personal weapon with Damage 20 and Breach 3 (!!!) will do 2 damage per hit against Armor 3 vehicles.

It seems to me that with a missile tube being used against a vehicle you're likely to see the majority of your damage represented as critical hits given its crit rating of 2. You'll mark up the outside of whatever you're shooting but the real bulk of the damage will come through in terms of crippling various systems.

Andrew Tatro said:

From the Beta Update:

"A critical injury can only be triggered on a successful hit that deals damage.”

So, if you don't do any damage, you can't activate a critical hit.

No one's debating that. With a Missile Tube you're still probably dinging most low-scale vehicles (scout walkers, etc) for a point or two of damage and thus can rack up the crit. If you're shooting a Missile Tube at the Star Wars equivalent of a heavy tank (AT-AT/Sandcrawler, etc) you're wasting your time and that makes a certain amount of sense. These are vehicles that are designed to take a pounding from damage on their own scale, so attacking them with personal weapons doesn't make any sense.

Andrew Tatro said:

Uhm… I don't think the AT-PT is the equivalent of a heavy tank, but still it has Armor 3, so… no damage with a Missile Tube.

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of AT-STs when I typed that. Forgot that AT-PTs are actually fairly heavily armored (although looking at that writeup I almost wonder if that isn't too much armor for what it's supposed to represent). Still, you're going to mess up APCs and any smaller vehicles pretty handily.

Side thought: I would think that shooting something like a packed APC with a Blast 10 weapon would allow you to activate the Blast quality against the occupants.

Andrew Tatro said:

In this case I think I would apply the vehicle armor (of the APC) as an additional armor for the occupants.

Would the Breach 1 of a missile be valid for the Blast 10 damage?

Side question: how much does a single missile cost? (Not the Tube, the Ammo)

Hello.

I would bet that the beta rulebook didn't try to list all the weapons that will end up in the final core rulebook, rather, just enough for us to be able to test the system.

The final book's table of contents lists 50 pages for the Gear and equipment section. that is, twice as much as the beta. I'm sure the art and longer descriptions will take a lot of that space but I'd be really surprised if there wasn't a bunch of new weapons included.

If you need to stat these weapons ASAP, feel free to do so but I thought it was worth pointing out that Fantasy Flight might have already done the heavy lifting for you. We'll find out in a few weeks.

I also wouldn't be surprised if anti-vehicle weapons don't turn up until Age of Rebellion . It would make a certain kind of sense to cover as much as possible of the heavier military hardware in the game that deals specifically with galactic warfare.

Mr. Flibble said:

Bingo!

One point to remember for folks citing 'well why didn't FFG publish rules for this particular item/weapon/starship/career/power/etc?" is that Edge of the Empire isn't an all-inclusive product. It's just the opening act of a three act play. While nobody said you had to agree with it, FFG's business plan for the Star Wars RPG is set-up in such a way as to provide material that's appropriate to each particular core book's area of focus. Military-based ships, gear, and careers will be the focus of Age of Rebellion. Jedi and the Force will be the focus of Force & Destiny. So it's not so much that FFG doesn't have rules for a particular something, they simply don't have rules for them yet.

Edge of the Empire is smugglers, bounty hunters, and other fringe types. When operating in the criminal underworld, how often do you really need anti-vehicular weaponry that's strong enough to take out a walking tank? At most you might need something like the missile launcher do deal with an armored speederlimo that a crime boss is crusing around in, but for most other circumstances, a full-blown missile launcher is overkill. And if your PC crew of miscreants is constantly finding themselves squaring off against Imperial military-grade vehicles, then they are doing something seriously wrong.

Yes, for now there are no personal size anti-vehicle weapons.

I don't know if there will be new equipment with "bigger stats" or "new qualities" to fill this gap.

Anyway, I think that stopping an armored "Landspeeder Van" full of thugs sent from to local boss (something with 1 pilot, 5 passengers, Armor 2 and Speed 3) should have a chance to succeed (even at the edge of the empire).

LukeZZ said:

And who says it isn't?

Said 'armored landspeeder' will probably have an Armor rating of 1, maybe a 2 at most for the really well-armored transports.

And as was noted, so long as damage is done (which a missile launcher will accomplish thanks to its Breach 2 quality), then it becomes possible to trigger a critical hit, which can leave the vehicle disabled but not blown to smithereens.

No personal weapon has Breach 2, only Breach 1.

Anyway, to stop a vehicle with a critical hit you need at least a 109+ result, so a lot of advantages and a lot of luck.

Well, we'll see what the future holds :-)

What is it that you are looking for? Something to take the vehicle out in one shot? As it stands, the missile tube can do it in a few hits, depending on armor. Three or more armor will be all but impossible, but I would say those numbers would be for full on military grade vehicles. We'll probably see weapons that can work on those, as has been noted, in AoR. One or two point armor can be dealt with and taken down eventually, if not in one lucky shot. Seems about right for now.

LukeZZ said:

Okay, so missile tube is only Breach 1 with 20 damage.

I'm looking at the vehicles listed in the Beta book, the closest analogues to an armored non-military vehicles would be the heavy speder truck (akin to an 18 wheeler or dump truck) and the Cloud Car, both of which only have Armor 1. Actually, I'd say an armored personal transport would be closer to the XP 38 Landspeeder with a point of Armor added on, and maybe a 50% increase in Hull Integrity. The personal carrier is another possbility, but that borders on a military vehicle. So each successful missile is going to deal 2 points of Hull damage on top of the chance of a critical hit means it only takes a couple of shots to take out said vehicle, whcih as Mouthymerc noted will take out that vehicle in two or three shots. Even a mil-spec vehcile witih Armor 2 isn't entirely safe, since it's going to take damage from a successful missle attack.

If you're really that upset that you can't insta-kill tanks with a missile tube, then simply change the weapon in your game so that it deals 2 damage, but that damge is on vehicle scale, with each uncancelled success dealing +1 vehicle scale damage. Just don't point them at your players unless they're within well-armored vehicles.

Donovan Morningfire said:

heh, which is what I suggested… hahah

On the same token, Under neath the Missile Tube Description is says; "most carry warheads to attack small transports, but other types of ammo can be found."
Implying that, as in other TTRPGS, the launcher it self is not responsible for the damage. Just make more devastating ammo available.

Perhaps they have a small stolen cache of imperial/rebel weaponry that includes one or two missiles that have a 30 or 40 damage capacity. In this way you can manage the weapons given effectiveness with out actually nerfing the weapon itself.

The same could apply to pro-type proton torpedoes or Slug thrower ammo.

That's how I would handle it.