Drogon character from ccg has the following text:

Creature, Dragon No attachments. Deadly. Doomed. Challenges: kneel 1 influence to attach Drogon to a character (counts as a Condition attachment with the text 'Attached character gets -5 STR.' Any phase: kneel 1 influence to return Drogon to its owner's hand.

The question is when Drogon becomes an attachment which text remains on him:

1. Does he stiil have Creature, Dragon traits?

2. Does he stiil have No attachments. Deadly. Doomed. keyworrds ?

3. Does he stiil have the second part of his text: "Any phase: kneel 1 influence to return Drogon to its owner's hand"?

Flintacs said:

Yes to all 3. Deadly will not do anything on an attachment, and Doomed only matters once the card hits the dead pile.

radiskull said:

The most tricky point for me is the 3d. Am I right that Drogon looses this text "Challenges: kneel 1 influence to attach Drogon to a character" when it becomes an attachment? If so why does he preserve the second part?

Flintacs said:

Why would Drogon lose that text when he becomes an attachment? There's nothing on the card to suggest that that's the case. You can use your influence to move Drogon from character to character, or back to your hand, as you like.

radiskull said:

Relevant text from the LCG FAQ:

" (3.24) Card Type Changes to Attachment

An attachment is defined as a card in your deck, hand, discard pile, or dead pile, of the actual "attachment" card type, as well as any card in play that is considered to be "attached" to another card.

Facedown attachments are also considered attachments, but with the following additional rule: If a facedown attachment leaves play for any reason, it is immediately put into its owner's discard pile. Facedown attachments have no traits, no abilities, and no card type other than "attachment."

When a card is "attached," it loses any other card type (character, location, event) it may have."

Annnnnnnnnnnd…. this passage irritates me as it implies that Duplicates are Attachments. I can't see any way to not rule that Tin Link can knock off duplicates based on this passage.

mdc273 said:

Easy. Just find the rule text that tells you that duplicates are NOT attachments. It is not just some common knowledge rule we all play by.

radiskull said:

Doesn't this "counts as a Condition attachment with the text 'Attached character gets -5 STR.'" mean that Drogon ganis new text instead of the old one?

Flintacs said:

Hrm. Possibly.

In the LCG, the Bannerman characters that turn into attachments do not lose their original text. I'd apply the same precedent to Drogon when he becomes an attachment here. I think the idea is that text isn't lost unless it the effect says it is.

I don't have a reference to the Bannerman comment above, but if anyone else can recall or if anyone else knows I'm wrong about seeing it before, please speak up.

Bomb said:

Forgot to check the core set. So… how do we establish which ruling takes precedence? Clearly these are two official, conflicting rulings.

mdc273 said:

This is how duplicates have worked since 1996, before the game was created. Duplicates are their own card type while they are in play. Duplicates are not considered attachments for the purposes of identifying them as attachments in the game. Duplicates are also a card type that hasn't changed into an attachment.

Something tells me that if I had to choose the passage to follow, it is the one in the core rule book that specifically tells you how to treat "Duplicate Cards" under the Duplicate section that outlines how they work nicely and not some generic FAQ clarity under "Card Type Changes to Attachment".

Bomb said:

Yes, bannermen is exactly the same case. I didn't manage to find info on them. If anyone knows where to find it - please, let me know.

An interesting thing: If bannerman doesn't lose his text the controller can reattach him to other character when attaching conditions are met?

I guess. The response would work the same.

Bomb said:

Found the relevant passage from the FAQ:

"This section contains the official rules clarification and enhancements for the A Game of Thrones Living Card Game. Used in conjunction with the most recent rulebook (found in the A Game of Thrones: The Card Game Core Set) and the timing structure detailed in section III (pages 12-19) of this document, these clarifications and enhancements should enable a player to navigate through the most complex situations that can arise while playing the AGoT LCG."

And from the Core Set:

"Duplicates, once they have been played, are not considered attachments. That is, although they are attached to a character, they are not affected by effects that specifically affect attachments."

As the FAQ is a clarification and enhancement and does not overrule the core set, you're 100% right.