mdc273 said:

Yes, that would work. Sounds like a really good setup for the tourney. I definitely am considering Twn2Dn / Dan to be invited to the tourney. I am, however, a bit offended by his post about an NYC charity tourney. I'm obviously not against another tourney for charity I just don't get why he needed to post to this thread as opposed to starting a new topic. Kinda sounds like a movie plot where one character takes another character's idea like it was his own.

In answer to dcdennis, I will tentatively set the date as October 4 and 5, which is the first Friday and Saturday of the month. The best location I can think of is Warriors 3 in Wayne, MI. It is a big space with plenty of room for both tourneys and the owners are really cool , easy-going guys who are committed to AGOT. There is tons of other stuff in the area as well, ie food, entertainment, etc. And, to mention again, the event will be catered by Chef Trevor McGrath from Hell's Kitchen.

There is something that is weighing heavily on my heart. Greg, you are supposed to be a strong supporter of the game and the community but you've done nothing but nitpick and give negative feedback for this idea. Instead of supporting a member of the community who, incidentally, has been playing the game longer than you and your boys, you have been constantly trying to knock down my efforts, turn players away from this tourney and pull attention from this topic. I'm sure it's intimidating to think of facing off against players like Nate French and other real champs instead of players who watched the first 2 seasons of the HBO show and decided to buy a chapter pack as a novelty.

Why mention your Valar Con, which is next year, instead of showing some support for an upcoming tourney for this year? No response since I extended the invitation to you, no mention of the King in the North Tourney on your podcast, just some heckling and belittling toward someone who is trying to put something together that is allegedly impossible. Team Covenant has said that if the numbers are there, they will more than likely be involved, I have a celebrity chef catering the event. From what I have seen in your responses, you are more agenda oriented than community oriented. So far, you and yours are the only big names in the community who are responding absolutely negatively and trying to make this impossible. The victors of this tourney will be able to claim that they attained a crown by paying the iron price, not the gold price.

BRUNOOOOOO!!! Where are you, brother? I would love to hear from you. A true champion and a true gentleman.

Greg, someone the community as a whole knows, posted an invitation to his home as part of a community driven event.

You, someone unknown to most of us, post a wall of text begging for a hard-return that comes off as elitist and egocentric. Now I'm not saying you are either; in later posts I think I've come to see that you also want to do this for the community and are making a veritable effort - you just started off on the wrong foot. You don't really get a second chance at a first impression, but if you really want to make this King in the North thing happen, it deserves it's own thread (appropriately titled), and (I would hope) a few more finalized details; a date and venue would help things get underway.

I'm sure 2C1C would mention your event once it's a little less nebulous and formalized. Until then, I can't blame them for avoiding the topic.

lalchant said:

You are welcome to email me at [email protected].

But attempting to call me out publicly lacks the integrity and respect many players are looking for in a large scale tournament organizer.

Dobbler said:

Lalchant is a guy who loves the game and community. He came with me to Chicon before and it definitely left a positive impression. Like Greg stated, it was a really cool and important event that was player driven. I can’t stress that enough.

Players taking initiative through special tournaments, making videos, doing podcasts or anything else that is taking their precious free time for the enjoyment of others should be applauded. That being said, this is the internet and communication can be lost in translation. I hope nobody was offended and believe me when I say that you need to know chant when he is kidding. We don’t usually use the “ ~ “.

Lalchant has said to me personally how much he admires and respects guys like Greg, but I hope you can see why is frustrating that after the thread gained a little steam other metas diverged into planning their own events and kind of hijacking his idea.

He started off with what I feel is an excellent idea; have the only legend left who 99% of this new era of LCG player has never faced: Nate French. Back in the day he was arguably the best, but my own hubris has to include myself and Melnick. He came close for the first one and if he attended the following year I have a strong feeling he could have won. Unfortunately, as we all know Melnick and I got DQ’ed (I believe we were the top 2 seeds that year). So I guess AGOT competitive history as we know it has changed. What if Nate or Melnick didn’t quit the game? How many titles would they have had? I wonder.

The new blood of this game has picked up the slack and only a few of us left link the past greatness with the present. What he set out to do was run a tournament of who’s who of current and past champions, no excuses, no DQ’s , no Day 2 switching decks (~your welcome Bruno J ) . Is it exclusive? Yep. Once in a game’s lifetime? Probably. Special and exciting? You bet.

Now of course we want to include as many people as possible, with say a champion’s bracket and their meta mates. (perhaps playing each other in the finals?) We want to make this event huge, and I’m putting as much time and support as I can to see if we can’t make it happen. As with many things this idea is a bit of group think, so I’m sure if one or two out of towners committed, more would follow.

I’ve never known anyone, especially the champions of this community to shy away from competition, drinking, and an overall good time. I’m extending my hand in fellowship I hope others will follow once we hammer out the details in a few days. This game is rich in friendship and history, we're just trying to add a little more.

Casey

PS. ~old school OH and MI meta for the win!

Silence is golden:

I think that a big part of the problem that some of us are having is that it isn't really clear what the format would be, and ultimately, what the 'main' purpose of the event is. Is it to put on a big event similar to Chicon that anyone can join & fosters community spirit; or, is it an 'invitational' meant to get champions or 'famous' players together?

I'm not really sure that you can do both. At the very least, one aspect has to take precedence over the other.

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in travelling to an event that separates the field into categories, with one 'pot' appearing to be the 'popular' or perceived 'better' players, and the other consisting of what could be perceived as 'filler'. Especially considering that the criteria for who gets put in 'Pot A' seems to be fairly subjective at this point. Is it just past champions, or players who have made or than 1 top 8 at worlds, or famous board names, or just players who certain metas get along with better than others? That kind of separtation is something that I do not believe would have occurred at any future Chicons if AJ was still playing & running them.

I realize this still seems to be a work in process.

If the primary purpose is really to guarantee that Nate & a select few other champions or 'famous' players can attend & play (thus driving the prestige & demand for attending the event)), I would suggest e-mailing those players first and nailing down a date before going any further (determining format, etc).

If you really had your heart set on the invitational/tourny of champions concept - by all means go with that; but, realize that no matter how much effort you put into trying to make the event fun for everyone and inclusive - by it's very nature it is exclusive.

Might I suggest that if you do plan on separating the field into two brackets, you come up with extremely transparent & objective criteria, & publish it to the community. That may help alleviate some of the skepticism regarding splitting the field into brackets.

It's a lot of work to put on an event like this. So, regardless of whether I attend or agree with the format of the tournament, I do still commend the effort & wish you good luck in putting it together.

In case it wasn't clear via my previous replies, I fully support this idea in any format it ends up being. Anything the community can do to get more fields of 50+ people together is A+ in my book. I will be coming whether I am invited to play or not. A spectacle like this would be a boss time even just spectating. It'd be worth the drive just for the potential to play pickup games vs people I usually only see once a year otherwise.

I also want to applaud Lalchant's efforts. A large-scale event unassociated with FFG that brings together players (like Chicon, or other past events) is an excellent idea. The suggestion comes at a good time for the game. We have had a recent influx of players, and the competitive environment is varied, which has kept many players enthusiastic. Still, with all of the disparate regionals events and growth of online gaming, there does seem to be a lack of community and despite the increase in numbers, momentum for this game isn't as strong as it should be.

NYC has long tried to build community with the Black Friday (now "Red Saturday") events. We have hosted players from across the US and, more recently, Europe. This November will be its ninth such event this year. Obviously, given timing, a lote November event isn't particularly easy for a lot of people to travel to, and there is a need/demand for others. To make it even worse, since FFG rebranded its fall event as Worlds (so that GenCon is a nationals, of sorts), anyone interested in traveling is more likely to attend that event over an event held the weekend after. I do, however, very much like the charity event idea, and we may try to integrate that into the Red Saturday even this year.

Regarding competitive events, I would point out that if it feels like others are "steeling" Lalchant's idea, this isn't meant to be competitive. In terms of timing, I think Greg's proposal, for example, would occur months after Lalchant's. And as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If the goal is to build community, then more events like this Lalchant is suggesting would be good, so long as they are spaced out.

This is all to say that if Lalchant pulls this off in a way that builds the community and supports the players like past events have, then a huge hats off to him. And even if it didn't work out, his contribution is noteworthy in that it has ignited a creative discussion around how we might address the issues that he raises in his post. (I believe there is at least some consensus around the source of the "problems" that Lalchant is working to address, even if there are differences in how some of us might approach a solution.)

All that said, I have to admit I feel a bit like Lord of Brewton. Important events tend to be large events, and large events become large by being more inclusive, at least initially. I do think there's an attraction to exclusivity and eliteness, but for me personally that isn't enough of a draw and would be less appealing than an open event. I think Lord of Brewton's suggestion for clear criteria is particularly insightful.

Finally, I want to point out that I'm likely not the prime audience for this event. While I consider myself seasoned enough to compete with the above-named players, I have not strictly speaking won any national tournaments like they have. In any event, just to clarify, my own ability to attend will be predominently driven by (1) family schedule (newborn has thus far kept me from attending any regionals this year and will likely keep me from GenCon as well), and (2) whether the event would be open to all players. What makes traveling fun, for me, is that it gives me an excuse to spend time with friends doing something I enjoy, and meeting people similar to me. I realize there's a balance here in terms of what Lalchant wants to accomplish, so no hard feelings either way…it's just my personal preference.

Maybe I'm just dumb and someone has already said this before, but why can't both things be accomplished simultaneously on the weekend of the event. By that I mean have the 'main' tournament be one that is open to anyone who wants to show up, and all the 'big' names on the 'exclusive' list will play in that tourney.

THEN, after that tourney is over, as a fun 'side' event the following day, have the 'Champions Old v New' tourney of whoever he wants to be in the field. You could even have the winner of the 'main' tourney gain entry to the 'champions' tourney should that person's name not already been on the list (or maybe the highest place finisher who's name wasn't already on the list gets entry into the 'champions' tourney.

Seems silly to quibble over which format to use when both can easily be accomplished. Realistically there should only be 16 people -ish in the 'Champions' tourney (or 15 people who have earned it +1 who won the previous day). And rather than doing swiss you could draft a random bracket and play best of 3 to see who moves on.

Did my tourney format that lalchant said sounded like a good idea get completely lost in the drama side of this thread? O.O

dcdennis said:

I don't see how having an exclusive champions tournament is mutually exclusive with a big community building event either. The exclusive tourney is the main event with everyone else there to watch the best of the best, play in side events, hang out, and maybe even cube draft.