Against an army of anything, you have to fight smart.

Technically a Horde of Necron Warriors actually loses its oomph because Hordes can't do Zealous Hatred. I might house rule that bit out.

Against an army of anything, you have to fight smart.

Technically a Horde of Necron Warriors actually loses its oomph because Hordes can't do Zealous Hatred. I might house rule that bit out.

Actually i believe it is stated that they CAN get Zealous Hatred because of the Gauss weapons, if the GM feels like it...

1) Planet-destroying device like the Exterminatus command
2) A ritual (you'll need the true name of the demon)
3) Another great demon (fight fire with fire)

Also,

Check out the Horde rules for Grappling .

Then re-read them.

>

One way to incorporate super powered things into a story is to have the firepower directed away from the player characters. For example, you could have two titans battling each other. So now your CSM are nipping at the enemy titan's heels while it is trying to focus on the main target.
Or

The PCs are defending an artillery line from a cavalry flank.

Or

The PCs are escorting the greater demon to its target so it doesn't get bogged down and fail to arrive in time.

While i haven't had a chance to use them, the massed action rules in ToB would be great here. Everytime the artillery line has stop shooting its main target to hit something from the skirmish, you lose points on the primary target.

i agree with the previous point on here: If you've ever played Tabletop, you should already know how to fight these things, and it's certainly almost never 1-on-1.

Another thing even 1-on-1 smart players will figure out ways to defeat or survive powerful opponents. Don't underestimate your players. Hell my group got a Bloodthirster to inadvertantly hit itself with one of its attacks. Players can be smart and think outside of the box (Hopefully) especially when faced with do or die situations or extreme odds even if it means running away and figuring out how to take it down when they encounter it next.

How did a Bloodthirster hit itself with its own attack?

How did a Bloodthirster hit itself with its own attack?

I think this highlights quite an important issue with the "sufficiently creative players" argument. Often "player creativity" is a euphemism for "GM fiat". Ultimately, any plan that isn't mediated through the game mechanics will only work if the GM wants it to.

Some good information for any GM out there, just remember, not everything is designed to go against a player. Players who pour over the game's mechanics will figure the ins and outs to do crazy **** (SAME AS EVERY RPG OUT THERE!). Also don't forget that you can go to any of the 40k series RPGs and pick stuff up, they all can cross over to each other to get more information more things and new tricks.

My GM ended up hating the party because he had to end up creating creatures to throw at us from the warp because we broke the system BADLY, combine that with the fact that we where just incredibly lucky with dice rolls when we needed it. Face it, no matter what we're looking at here and how much someone has their fan gasm about something being unbeatable or the like, unless they're up against the full fledge power of a god not just a greater manifested deamon there is always a chance of success even if it's very small. This is the nature of RPGs, if a player dies, they die most players won't care in a setting like 40k.

How did a Bloodthirster hit itself with its own attack?

I think this highlights quite an important issue with the "sufficiently creative players" argument. Often "player creativity" is a euphemism for "GM fiat". Ultimately, any plan that isn't mediated through the game mechanics will only work if the GM wants it to.

Player on its shoulder attempted to hit in the head. It used the un-dodgeable attack listed in its profile. Player had a displacement shield that went off. Player was teleported, attack went through. Behold Blood Thirster Face palm.

Since you wanted to know.

Also yes, thank you. GM's are the final artbiter for any RPG setting. They can even bend the rules if needed. So if you want to make these enemies unbeatable and you're GM remove their stats. Every GM has this option.

Ah yes. My standard rule is, "if its funny, i'll allow it."

Ah yes. My standard rule is, "if its funny, i'll allow it."

You would make a great GM for "Paranoia".

Well, let's be honest, a GM who only follows the rules as written in a very strick manner tends to be a boring GM. For instance, another group in the club I'm in plays A Song of Ice and Fire. Intimidate is a social/diplomacy skill there (I'm not 100% into the terms), so when a character who's basically the mountain drew his two handed sword he failed to scare off a peasant. That's just dumb...

Last time I played Only War the ogryn in the party tipped a sentiel because...well, technically he's strong enough to throw it if he's willing to take some fatigue.

One thing though, destroyers are anti tank skimmers. Humans and Space Marines SHOULD get shredded by a destroyer if hit. It's kind of asking why the guys can't take a lascannon to the face without flincing. Be creative, and enemies like that are great at making interesting combats. Running combat, or desperate manouvers to never get caught flatfooted (having dodged against other necron horrors) makes for fun fights.

We almost got shanked by primitive weaponry last time. Nothing like defenders setting up organ guns and razorwire throwers in a chokepoint to make someone's life miserable

2d10, Pen 3, cripping 3, snare

and

3d10, Pen 0, toxic (1)

in combo almost killed the lot of us. Good times.

(Just don't get me started on rules lawyering in the middle of that...)

A BT is relatively simple enough fodder for a player who is tenacious enough, especially if the GM focuses to much on the RAW and rule interpretation instead of the fluff. Example:

Pirate Prince archetype with a WS focus.

Stats:

WS 45 (raise to 65) - 2500 EXP

S 45 (raise to 60) - 2250 EXP

Agility 45(raise to 60) -1500 EXP

Talents:

Ambidextrous (250 EXP); TWF(Melee) (500 EXP); Blade Dancer (750 EXP); Crushing Blow (1000 EXP); Flesh Render (500 EXP); Lightning Attack (1000 EXP)

Total = 10250 EXP

Pour resources into acquiring two Velklir rapiers (roleplay for those badboys, or, if crunch heavy, trade around with acquisition rolls until you get them, shouldn't take you long) and fit them with twin daemonette sisters (more roleplaying/rolling in case of GM), aiming to fit them with Accursed and Vicious attributes.

Then get yourself through the rite of fleshmoulding (several times if need be) for an unnat Agi, Str and WS (+6).

At that point you would be at lategame in an average campaign, but you would still be a 'lowly' human among CSMs and definitely a tasty morsel for a Bloodthirster, right? Nope. Your weapons would have 1d10+7(base)+1(best q)+2(daemon wp)+12(your SB)+6(half WSB)+1d10(accursed)=2d10+28 with Pen 7+2(daemon wp)=9. Flexible, Razor Sharp(Unnat WS+6 means that every hit is going to have the necessary 3 DoS to trigger this), Tearing(+Flesh Render), Balanced.

A mighty BT appears in front of you, aching to squish you for your audacity. You intend to prove him the folly of his savage ways. You -will- beat his init on a roll of 1 even if he rolls a 10 so you attack first. You draw your swords like a gentleman and proceed to pierce him like a fine Mordian Cheese. Spending two infamy points to raise both your lightning strikes you get a 65+20(for infamy)+10(Quality)-10(LA)+30(his size) = notable WS115 tests. Assuming you hit you automatically have 4 DoS and trigger razor sharp. Your Pen of 18 takes away all of his armour(13) and your felling takes 4 of his Unnat T (down to 14 total TB). After crunching some math, the average damage you would deal him in one round comes out to ~435 wounds, and the chances of dealing him at least 205 wounds (his 195+10 critical) are 99.63% in that first round. That is without taking into account the amount of 10s falling when rolling on average 32 d10s per round for ZH.

Not to shabby for some well spent EXP and some strongarming of a GM stupid enough to keep enforcing RAW. On the other hand, there is a 0.37% chance that he remains standing and in melee range of you after that and then you are thoroughly screwed.

On the other hand, I can't even count the times that my group got tripped up by some unwashed filthy gangers with sh*tty autoguns and a couple of well aimed long lasses with hotshots. Strategy > numbers everyday.

P.S. And don't get me started on Psykers and their possible shenanigans...