Antistone said:

I just want to clarify, the newest FAQ says that you don't get threat unless you hit a hero...I'm not sure if that means you have to simply suceed in hitting, but not necessarily penetrating armor or the like, or actually inflict a wound/damage. Does anyone have an authoritative stance on this?

Also, I had a situation the other day, that left everyone playing frustrated with the poorly written rules, and I want to see if anyone knows the rule here. I know similar situations have been discussed in the past, but I haven't seen one since the latest FAQ and I haven't seen this particular situation either...

I opened a door and the OL played Explosive Door while having Trapmaster in play...the cards read, "...Every hero adjacent to the door suffers 4 wounds (ignoring armor). Each affected hero may roll 4 power dice and reduce the effect by 1 wound for each surge he rolls." and "Trap cards that deal damage deal an additional 2 wounds"

Question 1) Do I get to roll 6 power dice, one for each wound dealt? Or only 4?

Question 2) If I do not get to roll the extra 2 power dice, since Explosive door specifically states roll 4 dice, then do I get to use my armor against the addition 2 wounds, since trapmaster doesn't state that these additional wounds ignore armor.

In additon, I was wearing the Cloak of Decpetion and Ghost Armor and my hero had 1 Armor on his card as well. Ghost armor is not an armor card and has no armor value and thus, I believe regardless of how many power dice I roll, any wounds that get through that line of defense, can still be cancelled with fatigue either way, so even if I rolled no surges, I could still spend 6 fatigue to take no damage, regardless of the previous ruling.

Also, I believe the current ruling is, that Cloaks such as this allow me to roll power dice to cancel wounds even if the damage ignores armor, but would I get to roll power dice for the trap damage and cancel on surges, then roll any damage that got through that with the cloak, and then still use ghost armor to cancel any remaining damage?

So many possibilities, it seems ridiculous. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

jjstev3 said:

You can attack the space, hit the space and have it count as an attack. However, if that attack doesn't affect a figure in the attack area then its an automatic miss and you don't get to spend surges to activate any powers.

jjstev3 said:

I'll try, but I seem to remember Antistone answering a question similar to this quite well before.

Q1) No, you only roll 4 dice.

Q2) No, the damage still bypasses the armor because its trap damage. I don't think (outside Dark Charm maybe) there is an instance of trap damage being subject to armor.

As for the Cloak and Ghost armor, you can use both of those to either reduce or negate the wounds you would take from the trap and the extra from Trapmaster to the best of my knowledge.

The distinction between hitting and causing damage almost never comes up, but it does exist, and it looks like I got it wrong. My bad.

I believe Big Remy is basically correct about Trapmaster. I have always understood that to mean that the amount of damage inflicted is increased by 2 (so basically pretend the card says "6 damage" where it actually says "4 damage"), which means it has all the same properties of damage normally inflicted by the trap, and the card still only allows the hero to roll 4 dice (since it says explicitly to roll 4 dice, rather than "one die per point of damage" or something like that).

"Ignores armor" only means the armor stat, not armor cards, so secondary effects on armor cards (such as rolling dice to cancel wounds on the cloak of deception) still protect you, but bonuses to your armor stat (e.g. "+1 Armor") provide no help, even if they come from other sources (such as the Ring of Protection).

And there's no official ruling that says whether you should roll for the Cloak of Deception or spend fatigue on Ghost Armor first, but the closest precedent is that effects occuring "at the start of your turn" are resolved in whatever order the affected player chooses, and most of the forum-goers seem to like the idea of extending this precedent to other questions of timing (which means the hero gets to choose the order, which means they'll undoubtedly choose to use the cloak first).

There is also the distinction between damage and wounds. Hitting without causing damage is pretty rare.

Wibble said:

I guess, but with Ghost Armor and 5 fatigue, I manage to avoid damage frequently, if that's a rare situation, then sure.

jjstev3 said:

I don't have it in front of me, but I thought Ghost Armor cancelled wounds not damage?

Antistone said:

Antistone said:

So taking all of this into consideration...the proper course of action would be...

6 Damage...roll 4 power dice as stated on Explosive Doorand negate 1 wound for each surge...in this example, I roll 2 surges...therefore 4 damage remain...

Now I roll 4 more power dice for my Cloak of deception and get 2 more surges, thus 2 damage remain...

Finally, I pay 2 fatigue to cancel the last 2 damage with my Ghost Armor...and neither the 1 Armor that my hero has on his card nor the +1 Armor from the Cloak have any effect on the situation and I take no damage and the OL is pissed.

Thanks! If I got any of that wrong, please let me know.

Big Remy said:

Yes, it says "Spend 1 Fatigue to cancel 1 wound being dealt to youe this ability multiple times, paying its cost each time"

What is your point?

oh my, this quoting this is annoying...sorry for the misquote remy, and sorry for the double quote above that...i give up

jjstev3 said:

This was what I was talking about. The distinction between damage and wounds that sadly leads to confusion. In that statement it sounds like you rarely ever get attacked and take damage, instead of taking wounds from attacks.

I see, such as a hellhound rolling 2 dice and getting only range with no hearts...an example of hitting without doing damage?

jjstev3 said:

Precisely.

jjstev3 said:

That all looks correct to me.

jjstev3 said:

As Big Remy hit upon, Ghost Armor cancels wounds, not damage. That means that effects that activate when you take damage (e.g. Burn, Bleed, Knockback, etc.) all still happen even if you use the Ghost Armor to cancel all the wounds inflicted by an attack, because damage refers to how powerful the attack was, not to how many tokens you actually lost.

interesting, I would not have thought that effects would still go through even if no wounds got through, thus the ghost armor was sucessful in preventing all wounds...yet you're saying, stun would still go through, but poison would not, obviously?

Poison adds tokens equal to the number of wounds you suffer, so yes, shields, ghost armor, etc. can completely block it.

Burn, Bleed, Daze, Frost, Knockback, Stun, and Web all specifically say they work if the attack deals damage, before armor , and thus can only be negated by causing the attack to miss (or if the attack uses only blue/yellow/black dice and rolls no damage, but I don't think there are any monsters with any of these effects that are capable of rolling zero damage).