Yesterday I was asked about the combo deck that placed 3rd in the European Championships 2013 ( http://deckbox.org/sets/371513 ) and if that combo is legal. I would need some clarification for our Regionals tournament tomorrow.

The situation is:

In play under my control:

• Repair the Waystones with 4 or more resource tokens on it, unit questing there.
• Gathering the Winds #1 with enough tokens to play 4 spells from the discard pile..
• Lore Seeker.
• Lothern Sea Master.

In my discard pile:

• Gathering the Winds #2.
• At least 4 cheap Spells (e.g. Scroll of Asur, Second Sight).

I start the following chain:

1. Trigger Gathering the Winds #1 targeting Spell #1.
2. Trigger Gathering the Winds #1 targeting Spell #2.
3. Trigger Gathering the Winds #1 targeting Spell #3.
4. Trigger Repair the Waystones, targeting Gathering the Winds #2 ? (see Question 1).
5. Trigger Gathering the Winds #1 targeting Spell #4.
6. Both players pass, we start to resolve the chain.
7. Resolve step 5: Spell #4 is played and resolved, Lore Seeker triggers? (see Question 2), Gathering the Winds #1 is sacrificed.
8. Resolve step 4: Gathering the Winds #2 enters play.
9. Resolve step 3: Spell #3 is played and resolved, Lore Seeker triggers? (see Question 2), Gathering the Winds #2 gains a resource token (now 1)? (see Question 3).
10. Resolve step 2: Spell #2 is played and resolved, Lore Seeker triggers? (see Question 2), Gathering the Winds #2 gains a resource token (now 2)? (see Question 3).
11. Resolve step 1: Spell #1 is played and resolved, Lore Seeker triggers? (see Question 2), Gathering the Winds #2 gains a resource token (now 3)? (see Question 3).

If Lore Seeker triggered (see Question 2), he would have 4 tokens on it, moving 3 of them to Repair the Waystones and 1 to Lothern Sea Master. Then start the whole chain over again. Each time I get another resource token on the Lothern Sea Master. After 1000 iterations, use Lothern Sea Master for 1000 damage.

Question 1: Is it possible to target Gathering the Winds #2 in my discard pile to enter play if I still control Gathering the Winds #1 (since it is unique)?

Question 2: Does Lore Seeker really get resource tokens? I think not, because while resolving the chain players are not allowed to respond with more actions (see FAQ 2.0, page 9).

Question 3: Does Gathering the Winds trigger it's Forced Effect while resolving the chain? I think it would, because it's not a player responding.

tl;dr

As far as I'm concerned everything is legal except the fact you can't trigger action that puts into play one wind if another is still in play at the moment of triggering.

1/ No you can't target Gathering in your discard pile since you already control one. Same as playing Reanimation on a Grimgor if you control one.

2/ Lore seeker can trigger but right after the resolution of the chain.

So your combo doesn't work due to Gathering's uniqueness. Sorry

Hi,

I was french champion of WHI and I am the guy who found that combo. I wanted to play it at french regional, unfortunately Wosho (one of my sparring partner on OCTGN) told me that polish referee didnt think the combo works. I have asked to french promoter of the regional, they were not sure i couldn't play it but I decided to play another deck. I still think the combo works but we need an official answer because every side could have right

Djibi said:

It doesn't work:

Virgo said:

It's your point of view not mine. We have already spoken about that in another thread about Grimgor and raise dead (it was the question i have asked to french referees before our regional) and we disagree. Listen the last winvasion podcast where Mallumo explains what he think about that, it´s very interesting (as usual) and far from your opinion

"If a player has a copy of a unique card in play, he cannot play, take control of, or put into play (via a card effect) another copy of that card."

This is not a personal point of views, is the rulebook on pag. 7

Horatius said:

I know Djibi you are desperate to make this work, but it just doesn't. Just like you can't play another same hero from hand (even though you will make the first one disappear during the resolution of the action chain.)

Also I answered all of your questions in the last topic (scion, rtf) so no need to bring them here.

Virgo said:

Maybe your answers didn't convince me and i wanted to speak about that with someone else. And one more time listen to the last winvasion podcast. I know Mallumo is not a game designer but when we speak about rules his point of view has always been precious and he is not so categorical as you are

Hi Djibi.

The difference is that the effect of: RtF doesn’t target but is a massive effect, instead the effect of: RtW target and the target is illegal.

The SoE and CotSE case is totally different, I do not see where is the illegality

I listened to that part of the podcast and Mallumo isn't right. You can't play Raise Dead on Grimgor if you have one in play, because if you could he would come into play, TRIGGER HIS FORCED and get sacrificed immediately. That way you would have one Gimgor in play and use his forced second time. Unique cards rules are clearly there to prevent such shenanigans.

Virgo said:

So if there is already a hero in BF when you play RTF with a hero in discard pile, you think that the second one would come into play and get sacrificed? Unfortunetly it doesnt work like that, in fact the second hero doesnt come into play

Horatius said:

Where di you read that the target is illegal?

You can say that RtW will cause an illegal state with two GTW in play during resolution but nothing in the rules makes GtW an ilegal target for RtW although it is already in play.

So if there is already a hero in BF when you play RTF with a hero in discard pile, you think that the second one would come into play and get sacrificed?

No, I see the rule about sacrficing as a solution for situation when an oppenent forces illegal states (rip etc.). In the rtf situtation all units would be put into play except of the hero because of the unique rule.

So two different answers for the same case (Put into play by a card effect a unique card when there is already one in play) ?

I wouln't as much as say that the second gtw is an illegal target (the only thing that matters is that gtw is a support in discard pile, target is legal), but the unique rule makes it impossible to trigger an action that puts into play an unique card when at the moment of triggering there is another copy of said unique card in play.

From FAQ:

Triggering a Card Effect (v1.7)

In order to successfully trigger a card effect, the player must declare that he is activating the card, declare targets, then pay any additional costs denoted on the card and meet any conditional requirements on the card… If a player cannot fulfill these requirements to trigger a card effect, he cannot attempt to trigger it.

The conditions for play Action must be legal, when you play and when you resolves the Action.

According to this rule, when you declare the action of RtW you can't declare GtW as target because you have already another one in play, and two copy of a unique card in play is illegal

Horatius said:

No, because the effect of RtF, as already explained, doesn't target a specific (illegal, in your case) card, but is an effect that involving all unit in the discard pile, so only the cards that cause an illegal state can not enter in play.
This is the difference; you can wait an official answer, but in our tournaments for now this is illegal.