Hi all. I was recently wondering whether it makes sense that the Divisio Immoralis is mentioned as being founded under the authority of Lord Sector Governor Hax. I always thought the Adeptus Arbites, as the 'parent-Adepta' of the Divisio Immoralis, is beyond the authority of a Lord Sector. Am I wrong or does it make sense in any way? Thanks for any advices.

The lord sector is the representative for the High Lords of Terra/Adeptus Terra placed over the sector. As such he is the senior Imperial Authority for the sector with the responsibility for the administration of imperial organizations within the sector. While the Adeptus Arbites, or any Imperium spanning adeptus is not fully under his control, the portions of it in his sector are at least somewhat under his control.

Think of the lord sector as the regional commander for each of the Imperial Adepta within his domian (obviously excluding the mechanicus due to their semi-extraterritorial status) . Yes there are positions in each adeptus higher up in that adeptus with more galaxy spanning reach, but within his sector and barring intervention by such higher authority, they answer to him.

Thus he has the power to sanction the DI, but only within his sector. His kind of half-in half out of the chain of command status may have something to do with why the DI as well as the Chaliced Commisariat don't get quite the respect they would if directly established by a galactic authority as opposed to a secor authority.

Kind of like why a special division created by the headquarters of the FBI might seem bigger and more respected than a special division of the New York field office of the FBI. (the latter being what DI is more akin to)

Another way to look at it is think of a General, he has command of the troops assigned to him in the theater of war for which he is commander of the troops. There's usually some high-ranking individual in the chain of command (president, king, emperor...) but for 99% of the decisions he is as far as it goes. At least, as far as the people below him are concerned he is the one they have to adhere to.

You also have to take into account that the logistics of the Imperium make it necessary to delegate power (almost completely) due to communication delays and other issues. I guess it could be somewhat akin to the Governors the British Empire had during its heyday, as they ruled in the Queen/King's stead.

I'd think of him more as the administrative head of the Calixis. They're run by taxes, which being an Imperial Agency they get from the Imperium, who is in turn in Calixis represented by Hax. Now Hax can't technically tell them what laws to enforce or not, since Hax doesn't have the ability to change Imperial Law, but he can create Sector Law, which is also enforced by the Adeptus, so while he can't shrink their perview, he can expand it.

So basically he who controls the money, controls the Sector, which in the end is Lord Hax. So only three orginizations in the Sector are not beholden to him for money, any Marines that are present, the Ecclisiarcy (who get their money through tithes), and the Inquisition (who gets their money through who knows exactly how).

Thank you all for the answers.

@DocIII: Is Hax really the regional head of all Adepta? I somehow doubt it. I think people like Senior Astropath Xiao, Lord Marshal Goreman and Cardinal Ignato do not think so either. Still, Hax none the less probably has a considerable influence on many of the sectors Adepta and their leaders in a way... Regarding your FBI analogy, I doubt the mayor of New York (ie. Hax) would have a sway over a special division of the New York field office of the FBI, would he?

@Lexicanum: Yes, but I do not think Hax would be somewhere within the chain of command of the Adeptus Arbites. Isn't the next step above High Marshal Goreman some Segmentum (Obscurus) Lord Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites?

@Xathess: Is Hax really controlling and distributing the 'money' of the Sector? I thought this is Administratum business, whereas Hax is the sector's head of the Adeptus Terra.

Thanks for the help...

Admittedly the structure models between real world organizationuse used for analogy and whatever is going on in the Imperium don't quite mesh right. The Imperium doesn't exactly have federal republic with member states structure.

So far Lexicanum's example of Colonial Governor's in the British Empire is proabably the closest regard the power of Imperial Structures. (And much better than my off the cuff FBI analogy)

A lord sector is not merely a jumped up planetary/local lord governor. He is a part of the Imperial Authority structure and answers to the Lord Segmentum who then answers to the High Lords of Terra. Very fuedal in structure. As such he functions as a regional supreme authority over imperial organizations operating in his sector.

Does that me he can't be overridden by an authority on the segmentum level? Of course not. Does it mean any member of an Imperial Organization with larger than sector reach can tell him to shove it? Equally nuts.

Within his turf he has nigh supreme authority. Can Lord Hax give orders to Lord Marshal Goreman? If it pertains to operations within the Calixis, it certainly appears so.

Would these orders from Lord Hax supercede/overrule orders from the segumentum level Aribites command? No.

So Goreman has to deal with multiple bosses, but at least one seems to outrank the other.

Can Goreman ignore orders by Hax that violate imperial law as it pertains to Lords Sector? Most likely, but then again there is surely one of those clauses in the Lex Imperialis instructing subordinates that they do not have to obey an illegal order.

Luthor Harkon said:

Exactly. You have just answered your own question.

Hax is the sector head of the Adeptus Terra.

The Adeptus Terra, also known as the Priesthood of Earth, is the central organisation of the Imperium, to which most of the Imperium's other official departments and organisations belong. Only the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition are not formally a part of the Adeptus Terra. The Adeptus Terra is an umbrella organisation.

The following are all formally part of the Adeptus Terra:

Administratum
Departmento Munitorum
Adeptus Mechanicus (Although they have that weird semi-autonomy thing going on)
Officio Assassinorum
Adeptus Astra Telepathica
Adeptus Astronomica
Adeptus Custodes
Adeptus Arbites
Imperial Guard
Imperial Navy

Actually, on second thought I'm going to side more on the side of British territory Governor, than on the general analogy for this.

The wikipedia entry for Governor-General of India provides some context of how the empirial representative still had to deal with many power struggles and wasn't so much the single authority figure in the area, despite filling in for the role of monarch. The myriad subdivisions of government into provinces and principalities all of which had their own figures of power greatly mimics the feel I think GW is striving for.

I think it boils down to: on paper Hax is the authority figure, in actuality he doesn't wield ultimate control and he won't be involved in the vast majority of decisions only those he cares about (or even knows about).

Also as an addendum to what DocIII said, there are a variety of "organizational diagrams" in the Core rulebook depicting the relationship of the various functions of the Adeptus Terra, including the Inquisition with the Emperor at the core. It's much more detailed in that it specifies the power overlaps and shows the flow of power between groups. In it you can see how the Inquisition answers only to the Emperor and I believe the same is true of the Offiicio Assassinorium. But alas, I don't have the core book with me at the moment.

Luthor Harkon said:

However, the mayor of New York is a state level power, whereas the FBI field office is a federal office, operating at the federal level. In essence they belong to two different governments. States have sovereignty, at least on paper, and are separate from the federal government (yet at the same time are part of the federation).

The analogy for this in WH40k would be planetary governors , which answer to the Adeptus Terra but are in effect free to tend to governing their world as they see fit. That is, as long as they worship the emperor, respect the Inquisition, hand over all psykers, provide PDF troops and meet their various tithe quotas. And much like states, they have not been terribly successful in seceding from the overarching government.

And this is why I say the Governor-General example is much better, as a general tends to have complete command. However, it should be noted that the Calixian Conclave is the final word in the Calixis Sector, overpowering even Marius Hax. (of course, he might try to fight such an assertion).

Thanks again for the very helpful answers and interpretations.

DocIII said:

But the Ecclesiarchy is also an Adepta, the Adeptus Ministorum. So, I think it should also be part of the Adeptus Terra then. In my opinion at least moreso than the Adeptus Mechanicus, which seem more or less completely detached from the Adeptus Terra and even the Imperium. But then even the Adeptus Astartes is called an Adepta....hmmm

I found an interesting sentence in DH:

'On a smaller scale, Commander Hax could have considerable sway over many of the sector's Adepts, such as members of the Adeptus Arbites and the Ecclesiarchy. Though Hax rules in a "hands-off" manner, this influence is not to be underestimated.'

Still, I wonder whether he really has a sway over the Imperial Guard and the Navy, as I assumed they are beyond the 'civilian' government (maybe for the reasons alone to hinder a possible sector-wide rebellion).

N0-1 said in another thread:

'Thus, within the Calixis Sector, Lord Hax really has no official authority over the deployment of Imperial Navy or Imperial Guard forces - his authority is civilian, not military, and similarly he has no direct official authority over religious, psychic or Mechanicus matters within the Calixis Sector. For practical purposes, he works closely with the Sector Admiralty responsible for Battlefleet Calixis and the Lord Generals responsible for the Imperial Guard within the Sector (both of whom in turn report to their own superiors at Segmentum Command, in this case on distant Cypra Mundi), along with representatives of every other branch of Imperial Authority with interests in the Sector.'

And normally he is very knowledgable regarding 40K.

The complex and intertwined power structures of the Imperium of Man is one of the most intriguing parts of Warhammer 40K in my opinion...

DocIII said:

That's drawn from the 2nd Edition 40k Codex Imperialis book, correct? A good source, but a little out-of-date (it was published over 16 years ago, lots of background has been written since then). I think a good rule of thumb in regards to the autonomy of any given Imperial organisation is that, if it starts with "Adeptus" (or Adepta, in the case of the Adepta Sororitas), then they have enough autonomy to be able to direct and command their own forces without significant external intervention. The Departmento Munitorum, while not an Adeptus, would be considered similarly, though the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy would not, as they are part of (and/or controlled by) the Departmento Munitorum.

As I see it: The Adeptus Terra, then, is a catch-all term for the government of the Imperium; everything contained within it is something that contributes towards the Adeptus Terra in some way and allow it to function. The Administratum is the most closely integrated of the departments listed above. The Mechanicus are, simultaneously an organisation within the Imperium, and a distinct civilisation allied to it (one of the meanings of the twin-headed aquila symbol of the Imperium is the union between Terra and Mars as allied powers). The Adeptus Astra Telepathica allow the Adeptus Terra to communicate with the worlds under its authority, while the Adeptus Astronomica enables travel between those worlds. The Arbites uphold the laws of the Adeptus Terra, while the Departmento Munitorum protects it from external threats and uses its resources to prepare worlds for war. Only the Adeptus Custodes (whose sole purpose is to guard the Emperor, and by extension Terra) and the Officio Assassinorum (who are more properly a tool of the High Lords rather than an integrated part of the government structure) don't really fit that pattern.

Each organisation within the Adeptus Terra (including regional Commanders) has its own purpose, jurisdiction and chain of command, which run parallel to eachother, dividing authority by Segmentum and Sector and down to more local levels beyond that (as appropriate - the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy divide down into Army Groups and Sector Battlefleets, respectively, but don't tend to split any further in regards to local politics/astrography, instead dividing into operational units).

So, within any given sector, there will be a large number of representatives of distinct components of the Adeptus Terra and the Adeptus Ministorum alongside it - with a select few sat at the top. These will likely include (but are not limited to):

• Commander [sector]/Lord [sector] (civil authority within the sector, superior to all subsector and planetary commanders)
• Lord Marshall of the Adeptus Arbites (legal authority within the sector; responsible for upholding the Lex Imperialis and advising the Commander [sector] on legal matters and obligations. Superior to subsector and planetary judges and marshalls, as well as their itinerant/ship-based counterparts where static local authorities do not exist)
• Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica (responsible for all operations of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica in-sector, including astrotelepathy, League of Blackships operations, and the deployment and monitoring of Scholastia Psykana adepts)
• Archmagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus (or equivalent rank; responsible for the sector's Forge Worlds and other Mechanicus domains, the resident Tech-Priests, servitors, Skitarii legions, and possessed of effective authority over any resident Legionnes Titanicus)
• Cardinal of the Adeptus Ministorum (senior religious authority over the sector, responsible for defining orthodoxy and acceptable variances of the Imperial Creed within the sector, with authority over the sector's official priesthood and nominal authority over resident Adepta Sororitas - though the Sororitas also police the Ministorum, and they have their own distinct chain of command not bound to regional authorities).
• Admiral [sector] (the title of Lord Admiral [sector] is the most commonly seen example of this rank, but requires that the Admiral be granted an Imperial title; in practice, it's the same thing. Responsible for all Imperial Navy operations within the sector, and commander of the Battlefleet [sector], under the authority of Battlefleet [segmentum], and containing assorted battlegroups, squadrons and individual ships)
• General [sector] (or equivalent rank, though as with the Admirals [sector], the title is almost always preceded with Lord as the holders of the rank are invariably ennobled; responsible for Imperial Guard recruitment, training and deployment within the sector, not to be confused with Generals Militant/Commanders Militant, who command itinerant Army Groups/Battlegroups not necessarily bound to a single sector)

In theoretical terms, each has ultimate authority over his or her sphere of influence... but interactions between organisations are extensive, and thus a complex political game must be played by these high authorities in order to function in any practical fashion.

For example, if a world within the Sirranis sector is invaded by Orks, a petition will be put to subsector and then sector command for action to be taken. As the invasion must be halted by ground troops, the petition goes to the Lord General Sirranis for consideration, whose staff will allocate it an urgency level and determine a suitable response - the mobilisation of garrison forces in the subsector and sector (subsector first, as they're closer), and if necessary the raising of new regiments to bolster those forces. Mobilisation of garrison forces requires the Imperial Navy for transportation, which means a request must be sent to the Lord Admiral Sirranis for ships to be deployed from the Battlefleet Sirranis. Raising of new regiments requires the intervention of the office of the Lord Sirranis (Sector Commander) to command that regiments be raised (the Imperial Guard don't have authority here until the regiments have been raised; raising them requires that people and materiel be taken from the sector's worlds, which are under the authority of the Sector Commander). If worlds do not comply in this matter, then the Adeptus Arbites must intervene to compel planetary authorties and "remind them" of their duty. The deployment of Enginseers requires the acknowledgement and permission of the sector's Archmagos or equivalent; similarly the deployment of Savants Militant and Astropaths requires the consent of the Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Logistical and political support staff (including, but not limited to, Commissars) for the Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard will be provided and overseen by the Departmento Munitorum authorities that sit between and above the Navy and Guard...

...in short, the authority required to send reinforcements to an invaded world takes a large number of people to wield, and can be quite a complicated matter as requests and petitions bounce between organisations. This complex and often tedious interplay of organisation is one of the reasons why the Inquisition has limitless authority - an Inquisitor can, if necessary, skip all the political wrangling and cut straight to the matter of defending the Imperium by commandeering forces himself and putting them where they need to go.

Luthor Harkon said:

It definatly gets confusing, but one of the reasons for the Age of Apostasy was that one person gained control over both the Adeptus Terra AND the Adeptus Ministorium. That turned out to be bad juju all around, and so they're pretty much split, much to the dislike of the Administorium.

So while the Ministorium is connected to the Adeptus Terra, its in reality seperate enough to be its own distinctive organization. Heck it has its own "defense force" and can call up an "army" completely independant of the munitorium, so that says something. Mind the defense force is a minituare army, and the army is nothing more then unorganized rabble.

The Astartes answer to no one and nothing except themselves and the Emperor, which means they may or may not answer to the High Lords of Terra by proxy (since the High Lords are sort of the Emperor's Voice in absentea). Technically they don't even answer to the Inquisition but again reality can be somewhat different since the Inquisistion and the Astartes have a very close working relationship.

The Inquisition anwers to themselves and themselves only, technically they don't even answer to the High Lords of Terra, but I'm not so sure you would want to completely ignore the High Lords.

Now that I'm finally able to access the core rulebook, there's a nifty (albeit hard to understand) diagram of the Imperium of Mankind on page 248.

In the upper-left quadrant we have Imperial Guard, Adeptus Administratum, Planetary Governors and Adeptus Arbites, interatic with the High Lords of Terra. From my interpretation of the diagram, since the Adeptus Administratum is on top of the IG, PG and Adeptus Arbites that means it has control over these, but only to the extent that it overlaps. In other words, the Adeptus Administratum has control over a small part of the Planetary Governors, a chunk of the Imperial Guard and is quite enmeshed with the Adeptus Arbites.

The other "factions" of the Adeptus Terra are off on their own quadrants doing their own thing.

Another thing to consider - while the organisational mess described above may technically be how the authority structure of the Imperium is meant to work, the reality is much, much messier. Usually someone's authority is actually based on how much political influence he has available. A Sector Governor might be powerless, while a Planetary Governor could be served by the all the adepta in a sector, with the Imperial Navy and the Guard in his pocket. Again, this is another reason why the Inquisition's power is absolute. There can be no question as to their authority or jursidiction.

In the case of Hax, he may simply have the arbites in his pocket.

The answer here is far more simple. Kae Drusil, who was appointed by Governor Hax, recruits for the Divisio Immoralis FROM the Adeptus Arbites, taking hard cases, burnouts, substance abusers, insubordinates, etc. Drusil is responsible for the Divisio, which operates under its own authority, but frequently interacts with the Adeptus Arbites. There are, however, many instances where the Adeptus Arbites push red tape in the Divisio's path, or simply refuse to lend aid or recognize their carta. So, the DI is a law enforcement agency that IS under the direct control of Hax, but whether it's efficient is another matter entirely.