Several rule questions

By LowKey2, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

First of all please forgive me if an answer to one of these questions exists in the forums.I've used the search and either found nothing or i'd like a more definite answer to the questions at hand.Also, all of the questions regard the melee form of the game.So let's begin.


1.While using the Crown Regent title to deflect an attack, does the attacking player have to declare his attackers before the deflection occurs?The way we play it, since declaring a challenge and declaring the attackers is a different step, the player initiates the challenge, then the player can use the Crown Regent and after that the attacking player declares his attackers.Are we doing it wrong?

2.Player A initiates a challenge agains player B.He declares attackers, then declares stealth.Player B leaves the challenge unopposed.Player C, whose title supports player B wants to support and defend.Does player A re-declare stealth on player C's characters? To make a long story short, while a player is supporting a challenge, does the attacker's stealth reset ?

3.Player A initiates a Power challenge against the player that has the Crown Regent title.The other player blocks.Player A uses intimidate to make the character not count its strength.Is the challenge considered unopposed? Or because it's stated that the +3 strength goes to the challenge it's still considered opposed? Also, if i have the Crown Regent (or Lord Commander or Master of Whispers, anything that gives + strength in a challenge) does that mean i can initiate a challenge with a character with 0 strength and still get the bonus in the challenge?

Thanks in advance to anyone who'll answer.

Lowkey said:

First of all please forgive me if an answer to one of these questions exists in the forums.I've used the search and either found nothing or i'd like a more definite answer to the questions at hand.Also, all of the questions regard the melee form of the game.So let's begin.


1.While using the Crown Regent title to deflect an attack, does the attacking player have to declare his attackers before the deflection occurs?The way we play it, since declaring a challenge and declaring the attackers is a different step, the player initiates the challenge, then the player can use the Crown Regent and after that the attacking player declares his attackers.Are we doing it wrong?

2.Player A initiates a challenge agains player B.He declares attackers, then declares stealth.Player B leaves the challenge unopposed.Player C, whose title supports player B wants to support and defend.Does player A re-declare stealth on player C's characters? To make a long story short, while a player is supporting a challenge, does the attacker's stealth reset ?

3.Player A initiates a Power challenge against the player that has the Crown Regent title.The other player blocks.Player A uses intimidate to make the character not count its strength.Is the challenge considered unopposed? Or because it's stated that the +3 strength goes to the challenge it's still considered opposed? Also, if i have the Crown Regent (or Lord Commander or Master of Whispers, anything that gives + strength in a challenge) does that mean i can initiate a challenge with a character with 0 strength and still get the bonus in the challenge?

Thanks in advance to anyone who'll answer.

1. Declaring a challenge and declaring attackers is NOT a different step. You declare the challenge BY declaring attackers. Crown Regent is used after that.

2. Stealth does not reset, no.

3. The challenge is considered opposed because of the fact that (a) there is a character defending and (b) the total strength is greater than 0 (due to the title). Yes, you get the title bonus in a challenge any time you have a character in that challenge, regardless of its strength.

What i meant by 2 different steps i meant the 2 steps in the framework
"1. active Player declares challenge type and opponent

2. active player kneels
attacking characters"
Anyway i guess we were playing it wrong.Thanks for the quick reply

You're quoting from the FAQ - Challenges Phase Flow Chart .

Look again - you'll see player actions are only allowed:

BEFORE

"1. active Player declares challenge type and opponent"

and AFTER

"2. active player kneels attacking characters"
No Player Actions are allowed between 1 and 2.
The Core Set Rules for Crown Regent are very clear:

"After a player initiates a challenge and declares a target and attackers, you
may use this title to make that player choose a new target for the attack!"

The Crown Regent title is used with the timing of a passive effect, not a player action, but it changes nothing in this situation: passives are always resolved after all steps of a framework action window (but it will always resolve before Lannister Varys).

I always thought you can't reassign stealth, but then we looked at errata that says :

The redirect ability on Lord Commander of the

Kingsguard occurs during step 2 (save/cancel)

of the resolution of the Framework Action

Window in which stealth targets are chosen

and defenders are (not) declared. It cancels

the initiation of this Window, and re-opens

the Player Action Window between declaring

attackers (now against the new target) and

assigning stealth. Someone help me. It looks like you can reassign stealth

this is what K-Tom says:

If you look in the FAQ, you'll see that the Lord Commander works as a cancel, jumping the challenge backwards and allowing the attacker to reassign stealth against the Lord Commander's characters, So according to errata and what K-tom says, you CAN reassign stealth

You can reassign Stealth when the Lord Commander title is used because the FAQ says so. You cannot reassign Stealth when support is used, because the FAQ doesn't say so.

I think what you're missing is the difference of when a CANCEL takes effect and what it's result is and when a Player Action takes place.

The FAQ makes clear that both Crown Regent AND Lord Commande are both CANCELs. This means they affect Framework Action Windows (FAWs).

Stealth occurs DURING the same FAW where defenders are declared (as you clearly pointed out yourself).

The difference between Supports and Lord Commander is that Supports is NOT a cancel and, therefore, does not cancel the FAW like Lord Commander does. This is why Supports does not allow stealth to be reassigned because once it's assigned, it would take a cancel to actually rewind the FAW.

To be clear… I don't mean to say that ALL Cancels only affect FAWs - only that those two do.

The FAQ makes it clear the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard is a cancel. It says no such thing about the Crown Regent. So the Crown Regent is not a cancel. It all comes down to what is written. With Crown Regent, Stealth has not yet been assigned, so there is no need to reassign it.

Argh! Yes - Khudzlin is, of course, correct and I cannot read. Crown Regent is NOT a cancel… sorry about that. Jeepers. atontado