Can you preform an action and then with your free action do the same action again? Basically wanting to know of you have PTL on an A-Wing or Interceptor can you boost then boost again with the free action?

The answer is no, you cannot perform the same action twice in the same round.

Sergovan said:

what he said.. but also note that in the case of Soontir Fel, he may choose focus as one action and then chose any other action on his action bar and he will still recieve the secondary focus.. because he is not techinically using an action to get the secondary focus, it is being assigned to him

the same case in terms of using Garven to allocate focus to another ship

know the difference

executor said:

Exactly, an effect giving a token vs. giving an action. You can be given tokens as much as you want, but once you spend an action (free or not) you cannot do that same action a second time the rest of the turn.

Cptnhalfbeard said:

correct me if i'm wrong, but in the case of Soontir Fel; if you use 1 of your focus for defense, you should also be able to use that 2nd focus for defense if you are being shot at by either a secondary attack such as a gunner effect or fire from a another ship correct? due to them being 2 separate occations?

or am i in the wrong here?

executor said:

Spending a token is never an action and can be done at any time you would be allowed to spend that token. That means that you can spend focus tokens during any modify dice step of an attack the ship with the focus token is making or defending. You can spend as many focus tokens as you manage to gather on the ship.

But Darth Vader, at least, can Boost, then Daredevil, if you've got the upgrades. Caught a friend by surprise who did not expect me to be facing 135 degrees off my initial bearing.

Grimwalker said:

I think you're doing it wrong from what you posted here. Daredevil lets you do a Hard 1 turn when you boost, not an extra turn after you boost, making your Boost turn 90 degrees maximum, not 135 degrees.

not if he boosted with the 1 bank turn.

zathras23 said:

I think you've misunderstood how Daredevil works. If you don't have Boost then you have a chance to take some serious damage, but Daredevil is its own unique manuever - it's not modifying the boost. So you can indeed Daredevil for a 90 degree turn, and then boost for another 45 degree bank, because they're separate actions.

I just finished a tournament where I had Vader with Engine Upgrade and Daredevil. After a few games with it, I know absolutely love Daredevil. My opponent could never guess where any of my ships were going to be (Vader, Fel with PtL, Phenir)

Buhallin said:

My understanding is that Vader would have to Boost first, followed by Daredevil as his second action. In the reverse order, wouldn't the Daredevil red maneuver give him a stress token, and thus unable to make a second action? Or is this an oddity where a close reading of the Daredevil card only replicates Step 3 [Execute Maneuver], and only that, not Step 4 [Check Pilot Stress]?

Grimwalker, I agree that you would need to execute Boost first. (You really had to ask that second question though, didn’t you?)

I think it’s safe to say that you follow all steps for each maneuver, every time you maneuver, whether it’s during the Execute Maneuver Step or Perform Action Step.

Normal Maneuver during Action (Daredevil)

Step 1 – Reveal Dial Declare Action (Daredevil)

Step 2 – Set Template Same

Step 3 – Execute maneuver Same

Step 4 – Check Pilot Stress Same

Step 5 – Clean Up Same

Step 6 – Perform Action Null

No matter what you do, you cannot skip Steps 2, 3, and 5. Why Skip 4, and why ask for new rules for action maneuvers when it works so well the way it’s already explained in the Rulebook?

(Question not specifically targeting Grimwalker, I understand you just wanted other’s input)

Hothie spoke to James Kniffen at the FFG Star Wars day, who confirmed that as written "execute a maneuver" refers only to Step 3, so Daredevil would not generate stress. It will be fixed in the next FAQ, which is sadly still a few months away. In the meantime, that's official enough for me to put the stress on Daredevil.

Buhallin said:

My question then is, why make it red at all? You can't perform the action if you have a stress token already. And you have to use Steps 2, and 5 (using and picking up the templates).

*Edit* See next reply

Wait, what? You wrote that a little confusingly. It always come back to Hothie's post: "Chatting with James Kniffen". I don't see why anyone would assume that you wouldn't recieve a stress token after any red manuever. Or why you wouldn't following the same steps, even if Step 1 or 6 are not used the same.

What I took away from hothie's comment is that Daredevil is intended to generate stress (hence why it's red) but as the rules currently exist, it doesn't. Based on that, here's what is going on as near as I can tell:

"Execute a Maneuver" refers only to Step 3. So Daredevil is telling you to do only Step 3, so you have no Step 4, so there's no stress generated.

This means that Steps 2 and 5 aren't really meaningful steps; they're purely incidental and probably shouldn't be considered steps at all. If they actually bother to update the steps fully, I expect Step 3 will be "Place template, move ship, pick up template". I also expect that there will be an errata saying that Check Pilot Stress occurs after any maneuver is executed.

<shrug> That's the word from the big guy. As I said, knowing that it's supposed to work that way is enough for me to say it causes stress until they fix it. But until they do, the designer's read of his own rules says that it doesn't.

Bumping this topic as I have a question about PTL and what actions can be pushed by it. It was told to me on another thread today that Daredevil cannot be used as the second action by PTL as it is not an action listed on the pilots action bar. This would also then apply to any other upgrade card action that does not state it includes onto the action bar. For example Engine Upgrade states it adds the boost icon to the action bar and the Millennium Falcon Title states it adds evade to the bar. Daredevil does not and therefore cannot be activated by PTL as the second action, though it can be the first.

This all seems a bit counterintuitive to me and I have read through the rules and FAQ and found no clear answers on interpreting this.

From the rules: Some card abilities include the “ action:” header. A ship may resolve one of these abilities as its action.

Does this not mean that any action the ship can perform whether it is from the bar or an upgrade is considered to be a valid action. To put it another way are actions from upgrade cards considered to be added to the action bar and therefore able to be used second under PTL. Or is the case that unless it explicitly states that the action is added to the action bar that these upgrade card actions cannot be performed second???

It sounds like you actually know how this works but can't come to terms with it.

PtL allows you to execute antal action on your action bar, printed or added by an upgrade card. It does not allow you to execute upgrade cards with the Action header. PtL has a counterpart that allows this, called Experimental Interface.

By the text on the PTL card it would seem that is the case.

The reason I am asking is that considering the question set me off looking through the rules and FAQ for a definite ruling that states that actions on upgrade cards and from other sources like damage cards are not considered to be 'on' the ships action bar when equipped. I did not find a conclusive ruling that states they are not. I found some rules and FAQ answers which seem to indicate that these extra actions are not considered to be on the action bar but I also found rules that state that a ships action can be from its action bar or from another source and is considered to be the ships action.

Learn to Play p10:
Each ship has icons in its action bar, which represent the actions it can perform. Additionally, certain pilot abilities, Upgrade cards, Damage cards, or missions may allow ships to perform other actions.

Learn to Play p11:
Other Actions
Some card abilities include the "Action:" header. A ship may resolve one of these abilities as its action.

Rules Reference p3:
ACTIONS
The active ship can perform one standard action
during the “Perform Action” step of the Activation
phase. Ships can also perform free actions as
instructed by cards or mission rules. The actions
available to each ship are listed in that ship’s action
bar.
• As an action, a ship may resolve an ability
beginning with the “Action:” header on one of its
Upgrade or Damage cards.

Not exactly definitive...

I agree that the intent of PTL is to only access those actions on the bar, otherwise why would there be upgrades that emphatically state that it includes the action on the bar while other cards do not.

I had several A wing squads planned out using Daredevil and Expose with PTL which now have to be scrapped. I just think that these different kinds of actions could be delineated in the rules a bit better and after searching the forum on the topic found this thread where posters are talking about using upgrade card actions with PTL when apparently that is not possible...

By the text on the PTL card it would seem that is the case.

The reason I am asking is that considering the question set me off looking through the rules and FAQ for a definite ruling that states that actions on upgrade cards and from other sources like damage cards are not considered to be 'on' the ships action bar when equipped. I did not find a conclusive ruling that states they are not. I found some rules and FAQ answers which seem to indicate that these extra actions are not considered to be on the action bar but I also found rules that state that a ships action can be from its action bar or from another source and is considered to be the ships action.

Learn to Play p10:

Each ship has icons in its action bar, which represent the actions it can perform. Additionally, certain pilot abilities, Upgrade cards, Damage cards, or missions may allow ships to perform other actions.

Learn to Play p11:

Other Actions

Some card abilities include the "Action:" header. A ship may resolve one of these abilities as its action.

Rules Reference p3:

ACTIONS

The active ship can perform one standard action

during the “Perform Action” step of the Activation

phase. Ships can also perform free actions as

instructed by cards or mission rules. The actions

available to each ship are listed in that ship’s action

bar.

• As an action, a ship may resolve an ability

beginning with the “Action:” header on one of its

Upgrade or Damage cards.

Not exactly definitive...

I agree that the intent of PTL is to only access those actions on the bar, otherwise why would there be upgrades that emphatically state that it includes the action on the bar while other cards do not.

I had several A wing squads planned out using Daredevil and Expose with PTL which now have to be scrapped. I just think that these different kinds of actions could be delineated in the rules a bit better and after searching the forum on the topic found this thread where posters are talking about using upgrade card actions with PTL when apparently that is not possible...

It's about as clear as anything will ever be and it looks like the relevant rules were already pasted in. There are actions that are on your action bar and then there are actions that come from other sources such as pilot abilities, critical cards, or upgrade cards.

The thread that you raised from the dead appears to comes from right after Daredevil and PTL had been released so they were being discussed as the new hotness. Like a lot of new cards, there are people what use them wrong until they talk to someone that read the card correctly.

(edited)

I had several A wing squads planned out using Daredevil and Expose with PTL which now have to be scrapped. I just think that these different kinds of actions could be delineated in the rules a bit better and after searching the forum on the topic found this thread where posters are talking about using upgrade card actions with PTL when apparently that is not possible...

PTL only allows you to perform an action on your action bar as a free action.

However, it may be triggered off of any action: while you cannot Boost and then PTL into Expose you can Expose and then PTL into Boost.

The modification Experimental Interface can be used to trigger upgrade card type actions like Expose and Marksmanship.

Thanks for that.

My Expose sqaud may still be viable, but Daredevil is not as maneuverable as I hoped it would be. Doing a Turn 1 and then boosting is not as good as the reverse order. It is still useful for doing a 180 turn wihthout K turning and in much less space.

Still think the actions should be categorised better in the rules between on the Action Bar and Other Actions.