JerusalemJones:
What would happen if 2 (or more) players played an Epic Battle event? Would this create 2 Epic Phases, or just one Epic Phase? If it creates just one Epic Phase, and both players played the event that allows a single challenge, would the winner of the challenge get to trigger both effects, or have to pick one? If two events are played that allow for two different challenges, would players get to initiate both types of challenges?
Ktom:
~So, did you totally miss the discussion in the DJ thread or are you trying to get it on the rules boards for reference purposes?
Many people seem tempted to do something like the following if 2 Epic events are played:
- Start Epic Phase
- First Player gets to initiate a challenge from either Epic event #1 or #2
- First Player gets to initiate a challenge from the other Epic event
- Next Player gets to initiate a challenge from either Epic event #1 or #2
- Next Player gets to initiate a challenge from the other Epic event
(and so forth)
- End Epic Phase
That's not the way to do it.
Each event is a separate effect. That means you must resolve them separately and each Epic event will open a completely separate Epic phase (just like All-Out Strike opened a second phase callenge "Challenges" instead of letting people initiate 6 challenges in a single phase). Therefore, the sequence is actually:
- Start Epic Phase #1
- First Player gets to initiate the appropriate challenge
- Next Player gets to initiate the appropriate challenge
- End Epic Phase #1
- Start Epic Phase #2
- First Player gets to initiate the appropriate challenge
- Next Player gets to initiate the appropriate challenge
- End Epic Phase #2
So, the only question remaining is which Epic phase comes first. Nate tells us to do the Epic phases in the order that the events were played (i.e., if a military Epic event is played, then an intrigue event, you get military in Epic phase #1 and Intrigue in Epic phase #2). That's not ENTIRELY logical by the timing sequence, but it is more intuitive of the normal "played first resolves first" structure of the game.
gammerx:
if you play the mil event then the intrigue event I believe the int acts as a counter and resolves first.
Ktom:
gammerx wrote:
if you play the mil event then the intrigue event I believe the int acts as a counter and resolves first.
Logically, yes. When you play the military one in the Plot phase, it creates an Epic phase after the Dominance phase so that the round order now becomes:
Plot-Draw-Marshal-Challenges-Dominance-Epic:Mil-Standing.
So when you play the intrigue one as a "counter," it should ALSO create an Epic phase "after the Dominance phase," which should make the round order:
Plot-Draw-Marshal-Challenges-Dominance-Epic:Int-Epic:Mil-Standing.
However, in a direct ruling from FFG/Nate, we are told to play the Epic phases in the order that the events were played, making the round order:
Plot-Draw-Marshal-Challenges-Dominance-Epic:Mil-Epic:Int-Standing.
So essentially, play the events as creating the Epic phase "before the Standing phase" rather than "after the Dominance phase." Nate says the next FAQ will include this ruling on multiple Epic phases.
Keep in mind that the Epic phases are created by direct event resolution in the Plot phase (not lasting effect triggered after Dominance) and exist in the round order before Dominance ends. This is important because if a round ends up with no Dominance phase (there is a card in Classic that will do that), the Epic phases will still happen.
Anath:
As far as I am concerned the logic approach is that whoever got to go first in the marshall and challenge phase would go first in the epic phase as well.
Seems consistent.
Ktom:
Anath wrote:
As far as I am concerned the logic approach is that whoever got to go first in the marshall and challenge phase would go first in the epic phase as well.
Seems consistent.
What are you thinking of when you say "go first"?
- If you are referring to the First Player from Marshaling and Challenges also being the First Player in the Epic phase (and thus getting to attack first in the Epic phase), absolutely that is true. First Player remains First Player until initiative is counted in the Plot phase of the next round.
- If you are suggesting that the First Player from Marshaling and Challenges should get to CREATE an Epic phase first, that is not entirely consistent. Epic phases are created by playing events in the Plot phase. So the order of the events should dictate the order of the Epic phases. This is especially true since the identity of the First Player could potentially CHANGE after an Epic event is played.
So for turn order WITHIN an Epic phase, certainly the turn order set for the round dictates that. But the order OF the Epic phases themselves is dictated by the order the events are played in.
Anath:
Can't do anything else than agree.