The only complaint I have is that it can be hacked.
Its easy to spot a loaded dice if in doubt call the TO roll the dice 100 times. I think if it landed on the same sympol constantly you would swap it out.
As for anything else keep the device on the table.
Bazinga said:
if this is truly a concern, it's pretty easy for a TO to require someone to delete the app, download and install again from iTunes at the tournament. No extra cost is involved so it shouldn't be a problem for someone to do .
Jim
zathras23 said:
My opinion on the dice app is that it's overpriced and not needed in my case. I bought 2 core sets and have enough dice to cover any situation in the game that might come up.
While this might be right, it still is of no matter. We can use it in a tournament if we keep it in sights at all times. Needed or not is another question…
Emrico said:
Bazinga said:
if this is truly a concern, it's pretty easy for a TO to require someone to delete the app, download and install again from iTunes at the tournament. No extra cost is involved so it shouldn't be a problem for someone to do .
Jim
This, and seriously it would be a lot of effort just to cheat at a game we play for fun.
DingusFett said:
This, and seriously it would be a lot of effort just to cheat at a game we play for fun.
tournament play (especially when prizes are involved) can bring out the cheat in a lot of people so you can't expect that it just won't happen
electronic devices don't belong in a table top game anyways.. the whole reason we play these games in the first place is to get away from screen interaction and play with physical human interaction. not to mention they are untrustworthy.. it's like going into a casino, there are no professional gamblers that play slot machines.. why? because they are randomly generated and for the most part will eat your money
where as going to a table game such as poker, you're playing the people in the room, not a program
use the device for home games, but i find it kind of rude personally to see somebody using their phone instead and i am more than happy to lend dice to my opponent if they don't have enough or any at all for that matter
It should be legal, but in the same way both opponents have to agree on a ruler they should both agree to use real dice or the app. If one person is uncomfortable using it, the other should yield.
I think its kinda rude to MAKE some one do what you want. If they prefer the app go for it. Fantasy Flight says its good. There for they have every right to use it no mater wether you thing its "rude" or not. Making someone not use what they are comfy with, would be like wearing someone else's helmet at a football game. Yeah its the same thing, but its not yours.
TacticalBastrd said:
I think its kinda rude to MAKE some one do what you want. If they prefer the app go for it. Fantasy Flight says its good. There for they have every right to use it no mater wether you thing its "rude" or not. Making someone not use what they are comfy with, would be like wearing someone else's helmet at a football game. Yeah its the same thing, but its not yours.
the fact still remains that progams can be "re-programmed" and that in itself brings to question the legitimacy of it in tournament use.. i have no problem with the program.. i have a problem with people abusing said program for personal gain.. you can't argue that everyone is going to be honest, because frankly it's not true
when playing a game competitively I want the odds of winning to be as even as possible (even if their squad will outright destroy yours) so that you at least have a fighting chance
and like i stated in an earlier post.. i would not "make" my opponent choose.. i would offer the option to play with just dice, but if they indeed pushed to use their program… then i would enforce that i also use their program for rolling my dice as well so that "if" anything has been changed to skew its results, then i will be on the same playing field and the game is square for everyone
but again, i'll reiterate my point.. why go to all this trouble when the program in itself should have never been allowed for tournament use in the first place? all this skepticism could have been avoided in the first place
esmolinski said:
This thread has become too serious, so may I be the first to offer that all dice (real and app) are eliminated. At the beginning of each game a coin is flipped, heads The Imperials win, tails the Rebels win. In the case of both players playing one faction both players win if said coin lands in your favor. This way no one cheats (unless your flipping a coin with the same side) and no one is taking too long to roll their respective dice ( real or app), Everyone wins a prize and we can all go out for pizza and beer (or your choice of drink) afterwards.
Wow this arguement is beginning to sound like a bad break up, each side complaining over and over about what is just and not really caring what the other side thinks. I think we all need a hug and some therapy so we can put this dice issue to a rest. Then pizza and beer (or again your choice of drink) on me this time, some of you really could use it.
executor said:
TacticalBastrd said:
I think its kinda rude to MAKE some one do what you want. If they prefer the app go for it. Fantasy Flight says its good. There for they have every right to use it no mater wether you thing its "rude" or not. Making someone not use what they are comfy with, would be like wearing someone else's helmet at a football game. Yeah its the same thing, but its not yours.
the fact still remains that progams can be "re-programmed" and that in itself brings to question the legitimacy of it in tournament use.. i have no problem with the program.. i have a problem with people abusing said program for personal gain.. you can't argue that everyone is going to be honest, because frankly it's not true
when playing a game competitively I want the odds of winning to be as even as possible (even if their squad will outright destroy yours) so that you at least have a fighting chance
and like i stated in an earlier post.. i would not "make" my opponent choose.. i would offer the option to play with just dice, but if they indeed pushed to use their program… then i would enforce that i also use their program for rolling my dice as well so that "if" anything has been changed to skew its results, then i will be on the same playing field and the game is square for everyone
but again, i'll irriterate my point.. why go to all this trouble when the program in itself should have never been allowed for tournament use in the first place? all this skepticism could have been avoided in the first place
It is not for you to decide what should be or should not be allowed. That is only up to FFG. And they decided that it's okay to use it even in tournaments, because they obviously trust this app to be safe enough. There is no 100% for these things, but it is perhaps easier to manipulate real dice than to manipulate the app (and far more people might be able to pull that off too) if someone wants to cheat.
On another page, i really can't understand how anybody can be so paranoid to see potential cheaters in anyone they play against. I mean i also want to have the same chances than anybody else in this game, but i don't suspect my opponents for no reason…
If on a tournament someone you play against wants to use his app, he can do it, and if you kindly ask him he might agree to let you use it as well. That is really all there needs to be said about it in the first place. Because the company that makes the game decided so!
all it takes is one person to crack the program and send out the encoded crack to anyone willing to download it and apply it
changing dice wieghts requires a manufacturing process or a lot of time and energy on each persons dice to do so.. so don't try to argue that it's an easier process because it's not.. and even weighted dice aren't garunteed to work in your favor, as they can still land on any side, not to mention that all it takes is for your opponent to pick up your dice and notice right away that they feel wieghted and you're busted and disqualified
but i sure can't read encoding text, and wouldn't even know where to start looking.. also willing to bet that the majority of the people won't either
what the point comes down to is that the game itself provides you with dice to use for gameplay and as many have already stated "yes it's been approved by FFG for tournament play" but the whole reason this thread was brought up in the first place was because of questionable motives about using a program such as the one i have clearly stated.. it's also possible that maybe FFG never thought that people would ever hack the program
and i really do give people the benefit of the doubt in most cases, but i've been around long enough in this world to know that you cannot trust anyone and that people go to extreme lengths to achieve their desires.. even at the cost of cheating.. shall we talk about Wall Street and the world banks? and how they cheated the system…
I understand that you yourself clearly like the program.. i don't care if people use it or not.. but when you're playing in a tournament game that requires you to throw dice.. why is it exactly that you need an app to do it in the first place? are you really that lazy to pick up and roll the dice? unless of course you're somebody like Stephen Hawking and clearly unable to easily throw a set of dice due to a handicap..
executor said:
Baking dice is relatively easy to do in order to help weigh the dice in a person's favor
http://cons.wonderhowto.com/how-to/hack-bake-regular-dice-into-trick-dice-339307/
hey_yu said:
executor said:
Baking dice is relatively easy to do in order to help weigh the dice in a person's favor
http://cons.wonderhowto.com/how-to/hack-bake-regular-dice-into-trick-dice-339307/
well that's a scary thought, didn't know it was that easy =/
sounds like dice need to be manufactured differently to avoid this happening as well
so i'm at a complete loss of words.. here's to hoping for the best
Personally, I really don’t understand why folks would cheat at a game. It doesn’t make the person a better gamer. Some of the most helpful games I had been losses because it was a good learning experience. Plus a person really can’t feel satisfied in winning a game because they knew they cheated in order to do so.
Unfortunately, all too often it seems that some people guage thiere own worth on how they perform in their wargame.
Its unfortunate that so many players out there are incapable of just playing for fun and/or simply to be challenged.
Deadshane said:
Completely true. If you can cheat at it, someone will do so.
executor said:
all it takes is one person to crack the program and send out the encoded crack to anyone willing to download it and apply it
changing dice wieghts requires a manufacturing process or a lot of time and energy on each persons dice to do so.. so don't try to argue that it's an easier process because it's not.. and even weighted dice aren't garunteed to work in your favor, as they can still land on any side, not to mention that all it takes is for your opponent to pick up your dice and notice right away that they feel wieghted and you're busted and disqualified
but i sure can't read encoding text, and wouldn't even know where to start looking.. also willing to bet that the majority of the people won't either
what the point comes down to is that the game itself provides you with dice to use for gameplay and as many have already stated "yes it's been approved by FFG for tournament play" but the whole reason this thread was brought up in the first place was because of questionable motives about using a program such as the one i have clearly stated.. it's also possible that maybe FFG never thought that people would ever hack the program
and i really do give people the benefit of the doubt in most cases, but i've been around long enough in this world to know that you cannot trust anyone and that people go to extreme lengths to achieve their desires.. even at the cost of cheating.. shall we talk about Wall Street and the world banks? and how they cheated the system…
I understand that you yourself clearly like the program.. i don't care if people use it or not.. but when you're playing in a tournament game that requires you to throw dice.. why is it exactly that you need an app to do it in the first place? are you really that lazy to pick up and roll the dice? unless of course you're somebody like Stephen Hawking and clearly unable to easily throw a set of dice due to a handicap..
Actually i own the program, and i have not used it for more than half a game because it drove me crazy. I find it unnecessary, but whenever i play someone who uses it, i don't object, i have no right to do so…
Also it is not that hard to manufacture. If it is well done you can't see it or feel it either, and they don't always land on a certain side, they just do it more often… Just as someome manipulating the app would do it. Improve his chances but not obviously improve them so everyone could notice after a time.
Simple solution:
Both players must use the same "dice mechanic" for the game. If this is real dice then use a communal pool, if both players have enough dice then flip a coin to choose which players dice are used. This immediately removes any bias.
If the other guy has an app, why not ask him how it works and then try it yourself… you may just find it works OK.
DB Draft said:
Simple solution:
Both players must use the same "dice mechanic" for the game. If this is real dice then use a communal pool, if both players have enough dice then flip a coin to choose which players dice are used. This immediately removes any bias.
If the other guy has an app, why not ask him how it works and then try it yourself… you may just find it works OK.
never thought of the communal dice idea.. so obvious and yet I didn't think about it.. good one!
Sharing dice is pretty much common practice at my game store to solve issues of fairness.
If a guy won't let you share his dice after rolling hot…its a pretty pathetic attempt at some subterfuge. I've even given them a choice in the past, share dice or use another set.
Recently this happened to me in a game of bloodbowl. My opponent was rolling really high to injure my players…one, two, three times in a row. I insisted on using his dice for MY next rolls…and proceeded to injure two players on my next two blocks.
He then switched dice.
Sad.
I have "fired" my own dice after rolling cold a couple of rounds :-) I just swap them out for ones that I am not currently using. But that is my preference..at least it feels like I did "something" to better my rolls.
Deadshane said:
Sharing dice is pretty much common practice
That is akin to scratching your friends private parts for him, LOL. That was a recent joke at our LGS regarding someone who just walks up and grabs your dice. I've yet to see anyone suspicious of others dice. If someone is highly suspected of cheating in any fashion, I'd rather just not play with them. This is for fun afterall.
My dice app only rolls criticals and evades, I don't see the problem with it's use… Apps are software and all software can be hacked. It can be done and someone out there will do it.
Not all dice can be "baked". It depends on their materials.
In my 30+ years of wargaming experince I have only seen a couple of cases of baked dice culprits, and one of those was announced and showing off.