Hi Guys

Will be running (or rather have been for the last two sessions) a small alteration to the "Scatter" quality of my PC's shotguns.

RAW - Extra Hit per two DOS at Point blank range, double AP at long and extream.

HR - Extra Hit per two DOS at Short Range, plus, Extra hit per one DOS at Point blank range, double AP at long, triple at Extream.

So far it seems to have been a good change, but wanted some second opinions.

Cheers

I prefer the Black Crusade version of Scatter myself

Darth Smeg said:

As do I. It cuts down on unnecessary dice rolls.

I use a similar rule to this, except extra damage is 1d10 instead of weapon damage. Also +10% to hit up to weapon range.

Personally? I would just use BC scatter, it works faster, makes it easier to hit folks at the ranges a shotgun is best at and gives a nice flat bonus to damage which can seriously mess a badguy up, but not the sheer over the top damage of the DH rule.

Cymbel said:

The bonus to hit is nice, but not enough to justify using the weapons at mid-level. Autofire weapons are simply superior.. and really a shotgun is supposed to be good at ranger further than 15 meters.

How often does point-blank range come up anyway?

Besides, the "sheer over the top" damage of the DH rule is equivalent to the Semi-Auto fire rule, unless that's changed in BC too?

Darth Smeg said:

You mean the version that nerfs Scatter so hard, shotguns are no longer worth taking?

Remember, Scatter stacks with Semi and Full auto, in both DH and BC, the extra to hit is always nice, especially because it stacks with the reduced chances to hit in the BC System (nearly every group I am in uses at least BC Semi/Full auto bonuses, often the full combat rules, called shot is made a half action again though). And indoors close range and point blank come up a lot, the extra guaranteed damage combined with a high RoF makes each hit more deadly (especially with some of the variant shotguns. Another point for the bonus is shotgun pistols in melee, where missing the +30 range bonus, you need every bonus you can stack. To be honest I find a lot of PCs don't ditch shotguns, but use them for what they excel, a simple but versataile weapon with some neat high end versions and a lot of cool variant ammo (cheaper holy blinding glass shot, powerful slugs, penetratring scatter flechettes, mini flamer blazers, stun shells, gas shells, napam shot and some more, even more if your GM allows flare shells, rubber shot/beanbags and some of the utility rounds used IRL). Not to mention the hack shotgun to any character with quickdraw is an amazing last ditch weapon, you can load it with 2 different shells for a choice, 2 of the same for 2 shots or one big tearing shot (with the new scatter, a 1d10+7 tearing with +10 to hit is a great emergency shot)

Cymbel said:

So Scatter is powerful because of some weapons have SA or FA, and shotgun pistols? Sure, but I for one think Scatter should be about the weapon itself, even the pump shotgun should be decent enough at close range. At point blank the +30 to hit bonus should be enough, the extra damage/hit should be at short range too to make it less likely that every shotgun user moves close to melee opponents.

Besides, the modified FA rules should make Scatter less OP in FA shotguns anyway. Slugs and Flechettes I don't know about, they're not in DH.

Anyway my desire for change came when the psyker acolyte in the party found out his Iron Claw shotgun was obsolete at higher levels. At that point bolt weaponry or FA weapons were needed.

A possibility could be to use the +3 PB damage for SA/FA shotguns only, and keep the old DH rule for singe-shot shotguns only.

Slugs and Flechettes are technically in RT, but many GMs let players use them. That said, from the DH books only you have flaming shot (works like normal shells, but causes fire tests and has scatter), blazer shells (cheaper than exterminators), Hyper Density Pentrators (chance for knockdown, tearing, +2 pen and half range), Cheap Holy Shotgun shells that can blind daemons (with scatter), Executioner Shotgun Shells (+4 damage, +1 pen, some special rules) and probably a couple more ammo types I forgot. AND any GM who doesn't want to let a shotgun player to fall behind can let them use Flechettes (+2 Pen, Scatter), Slugs (+1 dam, +2 pen), Toxic Flechettes (+2 Pen, Toxic, scatter), Stun Shells (gain shocking, lose scatter), Bolt Shells (shotgun modified works like a bolt), Gas shells (mini gas grenades), snare shells (-2 damage, gain snare quality), Acid Shells (2d10 E, take damage like fire, reduces armor), toxic shot (toxic with potential backfire) and probably one or two rounds I missed. Shotguns have great ammo selection even in core, updated scatter works better and faster and a lot of my PCs use shotguns.

Shotguns are great as is with the new scatter and some types benefit even more, all of them benefit from the better chance to hit and extra damage is a great way to represent it. A humble pump action is always a solid choice and now other models get some cool added benefits (A combat shotgun should be better than the humble pump shotgun for one)

Cymbel said:

Hmm the fireshells are not too shabby. But other than that, I'm not using much else other than the Inquisitor's Handbook, so shotguns are a bit lackluster there.

And I don't mind simplifying it to +3 damage, I just mind that it's only for PB range. It should be for Short range, and the only advantage for PB range would be the +30 to hit.

I can see that, shotguns got their real boost with the special ammo added later on. Macharian statted most of the new ammo from the unpriced 40k RPG books (RT mainly). That is a great replacement/supplement for gear books and weapon/ammo/armor books. Also, one GM of mine lets shotgun users have chokes, which changes the nature of scatter on that gun, more damage at longer range, but less chance to hit. That idea can be easily adapted to work with the BC scatter and give the close range damage, but it also limits the variety of ammo you can use.