SOMEONE has to start it!

Well, with Moldy Crow taking off all bets as far as the EU, it boils down to Balance, Marketable and Reasonable.

At the Star Wars event, Hothie/Doug asked about a possible third, "pirate" faction. The Devs put their collective foot down pretty hard and said the game was Rebellion vs Empire. I'm not too sure they got the idea, though, and I don't think "pirate" is the best descriptor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole notion is of a NEUTRAL faction that could be used either independantly or as addititions to either Rebel or Imperial. This could mean not only the addition of "neutral" fighters like the Z-95 or 'pirate fighter,' but also retconning ships like the YT-1300 and Firespray to work for either side - WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THEIR CREW. That is, Han Solo or Chewbacca will never fight for the Empire, and Boba Fett will never fight for the Rebels. But not every Firespray is piloted by an evil bounty hunter.

I actually thought the introduction of a Neutral faction was going to be the 'game-changer' FFG hinted at - but it wasn't so big as that.

All that in mind, assuming FFG DOESN'T wrap their arms around a Neutral faction, here's my toss:

YT-2400 & Z-95 Headhunter vs. Skipray blastboat & TIE Defender.

That's weighted towards the Imperials, however. A possible Evil alternative to the Skipray could be Hound's Tooth.

im hoping for the metagame to settle a little and FFG produce more pilots and upgrades for wave1 (and perhaps wave2) ships, this could include mid level skill name pilots with pilot skill slots as well as upgraded pilot cards for pilots like Horton and Dutch who missed out (id love to see a Luke Jedi Master pilot card with improved innate ability). Flooding the game with 4 new ships every new wave is not only going to hurt my wallet and leave me scrambling for storage space is going to keep the metagame in a cosntant state of flux and make it very difficult to keep up with what squads are the most competitive.

I'll play Devil's Advocate a bit here:

First, FFG does not "flood" the market. It's like a year between waves. Therefore, as I've already gotten what I want from 1 & 2, I'm just twiddling my thumbs to get my six ships from 3, which has no firm release date. 4 is just developer daydreams at this point.

Second, actually I agree that pilot cards and faction tweaking would make acceptable releases just by themselves.

IG-58 said:

im not saying i wont buy the models (i will likely get two of each), there r lots of players tho who will struggle to keep pace (even with annual releases) purely because players will need multiples of each ship. The concern I have that this is more than likely a money making exercise to pump out new ships at every opportunity. im at 23 ships and counting. 31+ after wave3 hits the stores. you can see where this is going. lots more models. lots more cash needed. Iv been involved with a certain collectable cardgame in the past, it had 3 annual releases. it got too expensive to keep up so i walked away after playing/collecting for 10 years. i have friends that still play it that cant give it up or love it more than common sense.

Im seeing a split in the near future between 'purists' and 'expanded universe' fans. im betting 75% of the readers on this forum didnt know what a Moldy Crow was before today.

The point im making i guess is what started out as a quite affordable tabletop game that can be played straight out of the box without tedious painting is quickly snowballing into an expensive hobby with no foreseeable end. Im not a huge fan of the expanded universe. If im playing devils advocate my end id say they r using this game to grow the fan/market base of the starwars EU.

The_Brown_Bomber said:

i'm one of those 75% guesstimations..lol

great feedback and yes i completely agree that this game is starting to take off fast in terms of spending, which will be interesting to see as the game progresses that future new players will have 2 options.. stick to one faction to keep it affordable or splurge on everything and drop an insane amount of cash to keep up with everyone else..

i'm already starting to lean further to the rebel side and willing to put money mainly into the rebellion over the empire.. and currently right now i've actually spent more money on imperials (which i barely play anyways) just to have the models and options available to me…. in total i've spent approx $300 on empire (8 ties, 4 interceptors, 2 advanced and 3 firesprays) and only approx $210 on rebels (4 X-wings, 2 Y-wings, 4 A-wings and 2 YT-1300's)

that being said i'll probably during the next set only pick up 2 bombers (i love the look too much) 1 shuttle, 3-4 B-wings and probably 1-2 HWK-290's (most likely 1 as i can't see ever fielding more than 1)

Hmm, my guess now will be:

Z-95 Headhunter, TIE Defender, Outrider and Hound's Tooth

executor said:

i think we r both on the slippery slope. Lol

athough sticking with primarily one faction should save u $, u will still need some of the other ships to get their upgrade cards. one reason i own 2x falcons and 2x slave1's. ur a few models ahead of me. i firmly believe u need to play with both factions to fully understand their strengths and weaknesses. for me the choice will not be which faction to follow but which era: originla trilogy or expanded universe. i predict i will get sucked into both in the end but my whole rant in this thread is just stating this game is getting expensive to keep up with, if u want to field the best squad possible for each faction you have to invest the time in playing different squads which means buying lotsa ships.

Buying one of each ship and proxying up the upgrade cards might be the way to go for casual players. if u r a tournamnet player then invest the money when u know what is good… how many people out there r going to go nuts and just buy multiple ships right away before testing them… plenty… and these little lambs r exactly the fans that r blindly throwing $ into this game.

I think they would have done the z-95 instead of the hwk-290 if they had intentions of releasing it. There are prequel ships id like to see (ARC-170 and eta-2) and eventualy we might get some sequel ships My bet is on Naboo royal cruiser, naboo N-1, droid starfighter, and sith infiltrator. I hope I am wrong. I also will throw my voice in for more cards for what already exists.

From the Q&A they pointed out when asked about the Lamba will the rebels get a pilot for it they responded "which faction did we introduce as". The Crow was intro'd as the opposite of the shuttle support platform for the rebels. They hinted at a bigger plan than just releasing whatever ship would be neat for release. The game mechanics all seem to revolve around a balance theory(be nice) they like to point out a lot. So I for one am willing to see how it plays out beyond the "why that ship and not the one I wanted". I think we will get more Independents but they will fall into faction lines, BH for Imps and Smuggles/Pirates for the Rebs.

Because I come from a background of playing poker and tend to pay attention to people's wording or how they say certain things, yesterday when they were announcing ships for the crow they had everybody guess there were some ships that the answer was flat out "NO". Then others like the outrider or Lady Luck got different responses. When skiff boats were mentioned or any pirate type ship the answer was flat out NO. A lot of the FFG guys were listening to players talk and saying things like "just wait" or "Aaahhhhh I wish I could tell you!" The game designers did squash any prequel or third faction. It was said, "the rebellion is the era this game will take place in." They also stated that they know what wave four is. Regardless I'm glad that they have us some insight and put to rest this third faction talk. Back to the main point of this thread ships I think you will see sooner then later are,

Outrider

Tie Defender

It is a little odd to sugest that if z95 is ever going to be made it would have been wave 3 instead of the Moldy Crow. Lambda was obviously chosen because it was the last remaining ship from the movies, and they wanted for ballance reasons to give us a support ship on the rebel side as well. The Z95 would nothave fit thay role. I think we will see it eventually opposite a ship that ballances with the Y-Wing. Also, I would love some pilots to add on existing ships, potentially switching sides would be ideal.

I'm really excited about the can of EU worms that's been opened by the Moldy Crow (note: when I say 'EU' I'm not talking about other eras , just about Rebellion-era ships from the rpgs, novels, games, and comics that never appeared on screen).

Really hope we get that Skipray Blastboat, IG-58 .

I also think the Z-95 is a good bet, being the opposite number of the TIE fighter. Same goes for the TIE Defender, being kind of the opposite of the B-wing. And then I suppose, yes, YT-2400 is a shoe-in (shoo-in?)

So yeah, same as you!

If they bring the Z-95 for the Rebs they would have to bring it counterpart for the Imps. So if they follow the set patern the z-95 would equal a Tie which is roughly worth 2 to 1 x-wing. What Imp ship would then fit as its counter? The game mechanics is base more in depth than this but it is where I am drawing the blank is. Is the Tie-Defender that answer is that just a wish full thought.

cert13 said:

Well seeing as wave one had the X-wing and Advance being roughly equal with the standard tie and Y-wing being nothing alike we'd probably get a slightly slower, heavy, semi-support ship for the empire to conteract the rebels getting a swarmer type. Not sure what that would be though, defender? Avenger? Chiss claw fighter? Those are really the only other tie style snub-fighters I know off the top of my head.

The_Brown_Bomber said:

so far i haven't made any regretful purchases in terms of buying multiples.. i think the only overspending i did was by buying 2 advanced ties and 2 Y-wings.. but i have a feeling that the 2 Y-wings might be of some use to me some day… and depending on what upgrade cards later become available, maybe that second tie advanced will make itself worth it as well, though i highly doubt it

but it's safe to say that eventually when this game does die off, that having numerous models of everything won't be a bad thing.. it's a fantastic game even without tournament support and i already have a couple of friends that have played this game casually with me and really enjoyed it

so it will still provide fun entertainment for years to come afterwords… so the more options for squad building on both sides; the better!

Picasso said:

Did you hear anyone ask about larger ships? I'm not talking corvettes, but did someone ask if they would go as large as The Rogue Shadow? Some of you have a clear advantage when predicting any future waive as you were able to talk to The FFG guys/game designers. Did they also say how long they planned on keeping it a dog fighting game? Any plans to branch out into a ground based game way down the road (sorry for asking a lot of questions)?

Waive 4

YT-2400 (Outrider)

E-wing

Tie Defender

Rogue Shadow/Star Viper - class attack platform (Virago)

Ekoba said:

Fantasy flight does not have lisence for prequel stuff thank god,

I am hoping for E-Wing above anything else but would also be cool to see the Z-95 get a look in.

I was talking with some of the FFG guys about the amount of choices the next wave will bring in. One of them said "can you imagine doing it with 30 ships." I think around thirty ships is a good guess. Also they were firm that X-wing IS set in the republic time line. I think they have a solid plan and they are sticking to it. There were a lot of ships that were asked about that sparked smiles and grins of I know something you don't know from everyone at FFG. However the large Capitol ships were always NO.

Picasso said:

Care to share any in particular?

E-wing

outrider

z-95

rouge sshadow

v-wing

tie defender

Picasso said:

Interesting that the V-Wing would come up as it is in the scene in Revenge of the Sith when The Emperor arrives to Mustafar. If they can't do the Prequals, I don't see how they could do this ship.

30 ships would be a nice number. Thanks for the information.

esmolinski said:

I think FFG is basing on Star Wars games (HWK-290 for example).

In the case of V-wing in Revenge of the Sith - yes, correctly, but it was older version of that ship. V-wing used by rebels appears earlier than the movie, in old game known as Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3D from 1998. It was one of playable ships. Here's a pic from game:

As you can see it's secondary weapon in the game were cluster missiles. Sounds familliar, huh?

EDIT: V-wings, in game, were insanely fast ships with heavy artillery - rapid-fire blaster cannons and cluster missiles upgradable to homing missiles. Using the scarmjets booster and rapid-fire blasters too much caused overheating.

If I am not mistaken, however, the V-wing that the New Republic used is merely a high performance airspeeder and not a starfighter.

I'm not saying any of those were guarantee. Just what I was reading into.