Bronn and Lannister Pays His Debts

By thorin_81, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

First I need a clarification on the triggered ability of Bronn: it is an ANY PHASE, so I think I can't use it as a "save effect" if I haven't payed the gold cost in an "appropriate window".

And then the question: I attacked in a claim 2 military challenge and my Lanni opponent has 3 characters (including Bronn) and 2 gold in his pool. My opponent decided not to pay the golds to activate Bronn ability. Then I used stealth on Bronn and the challenge was unopposed, he chose 2 targets for the claim effects, then he knelt Bronn to play "A Lannister Pays His Debts" on one of my character. At this point he declared to pay 2 gold to save one of his characters chosen for the claim effect and stand Bronn...

Can he really do that?

And if the answer is "No", could he do this (play the event and THEN save one of his characters) if he decided to pay the 2 gold before the victim for the claim are chosen?

Bronn´s ability can only be used in a player action window. So the latest chance to trigger his ability according to the faqs flow charts is after defenders are declared but before the challenge result.

So the answer to the situation you described is "No" - it won´t work that way.

The second case also won´t work. That´s because claim comes before responses to the challenge result. When the military claim is calculated Bronn´s ability won´t help (whether triggered or not) because he´s not kneeling at this moment, thus cannot stand instead of the kill. Later when your opponent has the chance to actually play the response to the lost challenge (lannister pays his depts) his ability won´t do any good, because the charachter are than long time dead.

If you opponent has the desire to get things going he needs to trigger the ability Than Bronn could stand instead of killing one of the charachters and he can be used to play A Lannister pays his debts. Net result: One charachter saved, Bronn is kneeling, lannister pays his debt was played to kill a charachter and a kneel effect was used on your own card.

So I cant use a character that was chosen as a part of the military claim to pay a cost of Lannister pay his debts? I thought that there is time to do that...

The most important thing to remember in all of this is that Bronn is NOT a save, so you cannot use his ability with the interrupt timing of a save. He has to be activated and kneeling before the kill effect would be resolved. Then, when the kill effect resolves, it stands Bronn instead of killing the chosen character.

In both of your scenarios, your opponent is trying to either activate or kneel Bronn after the kill effect has resolved. Since Bronn's ability is really about changing the way the kill effect resolves, your opponent is essentially trying to go backwards with the game's timing.

Rozy said:

So I cant use a character that was chosen as a part of the military claim to pay a cost of Lannister pay his debts? I thought that there is time to do that...

Yes, you can use a character that was chosen as part of military claim to pay the cost of ALPHD, provided that it is standing after claim is resolved. The caveat, though, is that when you do that, the character chosen for claim still dies. You use it to pay the cost of the Response "on the way out." Once claim is resolved (as it must be before you can play Responses), you can't go backwards and "unkill," or even save, that character after you play a standard Response like ALPHD.

That's what they're trying to do in this scenario: after the claim's "kill" is resolved and the characters are dead, they're trying to use ALPHD to satisfy one of the play restrictions on Bronn that would allow him to change the way the claim's "kill" resolves (standing him instead of killing one of the characters for claim). You can use ALPHD to kneel Bronn, but it is too late to change the way claim resolves for that challenge because claim has already resolved. Bronn's ability can't do anything for a character that is already dead.

Ok, thanks. I knew about the Bronn issue, but I was confused later with the ALPHD. But it is all clear now. Thanks ktom.

thank you for the answers, it's all clear now!