When does the claim happen. Before an event/character response, or can the character or event card be played in bewteen. Ex: True power the targaryan card. It states, if you would lose a power challenge you automatically win the challenge. Does the winner get the claim but then give it back when the loser plays said card? Or does that interupt it and cancel a claim effect. Also, if a card says to kill a character when you win/lose the challenge which goes first. The claim (lets say for military) or the response and that way the winner can choose someone to kill then the loser has to choose someone else or is the loser gonna kill someone then the winner chooses another? This is very confusing and leads to many arguments.

jedijoeybear said:

From the FAQ's timing charts, simplified a little for our purposes

1. Determine Winner

2. Claim

3. Reward unopposed

4. Renown

5. All passives initiated by 1-4

6. All Responses you wish to trigger from 1-5.

7. Action Window Closes (Moribund Characters hit their moribund destinations).

There's no opportunity for a response until step 6 in that chart, unless they are save/cancel responses (we'll get to those in a second). Whether you're responding to winning the challenge, to a character being killed for claim, or to a character claiming power for renown - it's all going to happen *after* those first 4 steps. Passives, like Deadly, trigger in step 5 - and from there lies the common defense of choosing your blocking character for Mil claim before deadly can do anything.

The only exception are save/cancel responses (responses with the word save or cancel in them, like True Power). True Power and Burning on the Sands cancel challenge resolution between 1 and 2. Red vengeance cancels and changes claim resolution between step 2 and 3.

-Istaril said:

This is pretty much on point (minus the indicated lack of the framework actions). Since your question used True Power as an example, I'll break down the resolutions fully.

1) Determine Winner

i) Determine Winner initiates

ii) Cancel/Save responses to determination of winner (this is where True Power is played)

iii) Winner is determined

vi) Passives that resolve after determination of winner resolve

2) Claim

i) Claim initiates

ii) Cancel/Save responses to claim (this is where you save individual characters from dying to claim, it is also where Red Vengeance triggers)

iii) Claim resolves and all cards in play related to claim go Moribund (this includes attachments and initiates a separate Save/Cancel window for attachments that go Moribund)

vi) Passives that resolve after claim resolve

… (the rest is fine for your questions)

That's the breakdown of the first two steps to which your question relates. Red Vengenace does weird things, like cancel steps ii - vi, but I don't really want to dig into that. There's still some things to debate about the mechanics of Red Vengeance.

Edit: You'll need to be more specific with your question about Kill Effects. A card like No Quarter and Die by the Sword allow the player who is playing the event to choose who is killed.

Excellent this chart is awesome! Thank you for the clear up. There is so many little details in this game and it all depends on how you interpret the wording of the cards. Now another question, the crown title, that lets you redirect a challenge. When is the latest time to redirect/the only time to redirect

Excellent this chart is awesome! Thank you for the clear up. There is so many little details in this game and it all depends on how you interpret the wording of the cards. Now another question, the crown title, that lets you redirect a challenge. When is the latest time to redirect/the only time to redirect

jedijoeybear said:

It depends on which you are referring to. Someone's going to have to verify this as I don't remember 100% accurately, but here are the two redirects:

Lord Commander of the Kingsguard - Triggers as a Passive in the Declare Defenders step

Crown Regent - Triggers as a Passive in the Declare Attackers step

So for the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, after the defender has chosen to declare no defenders it will go off. It will then reset the timing back to the player action window immedately after declare attackers. Once that window resolves, Stealth gets declared, then defenders get declared and you're back to the normal framework.

For Crown Regent, it happens as a passive immediately after they declare their attackers. The Regent chooses a new target of the challenge before the player action window. Then the player action window happens with the new target of the challenge and you resume the standard framework.

mdc273 said:

Quick fix here. Thanks to Bomb and HastAttack for pointing it out:

1) Determine winner of challenge

i) Determine winner initiates

ii) Save/Cancel responses to determination of winner

iii) Determine winner resolves

2) Challenge result is implemented

i) challenge result initiates

ii) Save/Cancel responses (including save from claim)

iii) challenge result resolves

3) Reward for unopposed

i) Reward for unopposed initiates

ii) Save/Cancels

iii) Reward for unopposed resolves

4) Renown

i) Renown initiates

ii) Save/Cancels

iii) Renown resolves

5) Passives

6) Responses

This version skips vi for each framework action. It doesn't change the answer to your original question. Lack of ability to edit old posts is irritating sometimes.