Posted this idea over on BGG, and wondered what the forum-goers here think of it…

So I think most people have come to the conclusion at this point that the Y-Wing, as it is, is basically never worth the points. Particularly with the arrival of the Wave 2 models, the Falcon is just a far better damage sponge - which was sort of the only thing the Y-Wing had going for it. Surely, the 360 turret is nice, but…the Falcon has that, too, and a proper gun instead of only an ion mount. It's not showing up in tournament lists, anymore (at least, not winning lists), and I think that points to a real problem.

While I think an optional 'blaster turret' (as opposed to the 'ion turret' - suggested in a few places) would be an interesting option, IMHO, the solution is much simpler.

Just add a "crew" icon to the 'upgrade' bar! The Y-Wing is a two-seater, after all (or, at least, can be, ergo using this as an 'upgrade bar' slot). A 'Gunner' or 'Mercenary Copilot' added to the Y-Wing definitely would provide it a bit more offensive capability, although a number of the options would be a good fit. Nien Numb, with R2-D2 in the astromech socket, and a 'shield upgrade', could also make for an interesting combination…any time you go straight, any time at all, your shields keep coming back! LOL…

(Not sure this would really be enough to make the fighter 'worth its points', as you still have to BUY the extra crewperson, anyway…but I think the added flexibility might be just enough to make people consider the fighter, again. And, assuming we get even more 'crew' upgrades in ships coming in Wave 3, provide a lot of additional - and interesting - choices)

Even simpler would be new torpedo options to make the ability to carry two of them worth it. As is the protons are decent but only realy worth carrying two if you have Horton flying the ship.

Vonpenguin said:

The 'crew upgrade' option helps with that, too - even given the options we only have, so far (although I bet we'll be getting even more helpful crew in wave 3). Using the "Weapons engineer", you "may maintain 2 target locks (only 1 per enemy ship). When you acquire a target lock, you may lock onto 2 enemy ships." Useful even for a gold-squadron pilot with two protons!

Heck, even "gunner" helps in a pinch - if you take the proton shot, and it missses…you still get to immediately attack again using your forward guns. Although that's not specifically something that helps with the 'equipping two protons' upgrade, true, but it does still give the torpedoes some more marginal value in that whiffing a shot isn't necessarily a TOTAL loss (which it is, now).

xanderf said:

No, no conclusion what so ever. The Y-wing is a great ship. They are pretty cheap. Compared to the A-wing they have the same attack capability (even with no upgrades) and can take a lot of damage.

I am not say that they are the best fighter out there, or even that they are my favorite, but they aren't "bad". They are still pretty useful, particulaly becasue they are so cheap.

I agree with that I would like to see the more Torpedo Upgrade cards as well as some more Turret Upgrade cards, but I would not say that the Y-wing is useless without them.

Hrathen said:

Ummm…

1) The A-Wing is cheaper (least expensive Y-Wing is 18 pts vs 17 pts for the A-Wing; second least expensive is 20 for the Y and 19 for the A). The A-Wing pilot Tycho is, of course, slightly more expensive than the best Y-Wing (26 pts vs 25)…but his ability is almost game-breaking, given he can easily pick up 'push the limit' and effectively turn into a Rebel version of Vader (two free actions every turn, because why not?). Y-Wings don't even have a pilot with 'elite pilot talents'.

2) The A-Wing isn't exactly fragile compared to the Y-Wing…it still has fully half the hit points, but it's a LOT less likely to be hit in the first place. 3 times more maneuverable, and the A-Wings all have both 'boost' and 'evade' (not having 'evade' can be particularly annoying in a fighter that has so little agility that you cannot reliably use 'focus' to help your defense roll)

3) The A-Wing's missiles are MASSIVELY more useful against fighters vs the Y-Wing's torpedoes. Particularly assault missiles vs TIE swarms! Or homing missiles, that both don't spend your lock and the enemy cannot "evade" to avoid!

Sorry, but I just don't see the Y-Wing being competitive, as it is, with Wave 2 units out there. The A-Wing is flat-out better in every way as a fighter, AND it's cheaper…while, if you are looking to just get a damage sponge out into the middle of an enemy formation to break it up and cause collisions, the Falcon is an order of magnitude better a choice.

I don't have any problem with a Y-wing, they make an excellent job of supporting X-wings. All the ships have a certain role in the game, you just have to use them as they were designed to.

So this means we'd have to re-print the Y-Wing cards?

A Crew modification card wouldn't really work because then you'd enable two person TIE Fighters.

New Torpedo Upgrades and New Turret upgrades I think are the answers to rescuing the Y-Wing from the scrap heap. The biggest problem with the Y-Wing from my perspective is that it doesn't do enough damage. Torpedoes are just dodged by TIEs, and the Ion cannon (while it hits reliably), only does one point of damage. By comparison the X-Wing can do tremendous damage and the A-Wing is better at dodging damage and being in a better position.

An Autoblaster card doing more than one point of damage would turn the Y-Wing into a cheaper flying tank that can actually hurt enemies. If you fly Dutch with a Y-Wing buddy and both of them have auto-blasters to support one another I can see that being an effective combo. Even 4-ship Y-Wing list with autoblasters doing 2-3 points of damage a turn is a decent list, even against TIE swarms. They'd kill TIE fighters faster and live longer doing it.

Not sure what mileage we could get out of Torpedoes since usually these are used against slower targets but are a heavier ordinance. Maybe more blast effects like the assault missile?

Either way a crew card seems a little awkward to me, though I can see it happening. But for a quicker way to fix the Y-Wing we just need to expand on the under-utilized upgrade categories it has now.

Though another desireable thing for the Y-Wing is a generic with an Elite Pilot talent to make them miniature aces. The TIE/Int, TIE/Ftr, and A-Wing all have these kinds of pilots and I think it helps fill out some lists.

Hraten, I would agree with you if you could find an effective use for the Y-Wing outside of it's ion cannon. I don't see anyone flying barebone Y-Wings into battle when there are other, better alternatives.

I also don't see why you would pick the Y-Wing for anyting other than the Ion cannon and at that point, I would trade both for another X-Wing which does more damage.

Norsehound said:

The easiest way to handle that would be just a sticker to put on the cards. Could ship with some mission packs or something - just the little icon is needed. Peal off, stick to the card. (Same thing FFG with expansions for a few of their other games, when the expansion changes items in the base game)

Norsehound said:

Specifically speaking to that point, though…I think it appears FFG chose to go in a different direction from that.

If they had intended to allow some kind of turret upgrades, then a natural fit would have been to create a type of 'blaster turret' option for the 'turret weapon' icon, and then give the YT-1300 either one (outer rim smuggler) or two (Han/Lando/etc) of the 'turret weapon' upgrade icons on their cards. (I assume it would have been a 2-attack upgrade, with a rule indicating that it could shoot at two different targets, or combine fire on one target at a '-1' attack penalty…basically ending up with the same effect we have now for the Falcon, only a touch more flexible) You'd have those 'blaster turret' upgrades for use on the Y-Wing, then, or could mix and match the 'blaster turret' with 'ion cannon turret' on the YT-1300, etc.

However, they decided to handle the Falcon's turret quite differently, which (to me) would seem to point to the idea of FFG not really revisiting turret upgrades going forward…specfically that the only other ships in the Star Wars films that had a turret of any kind having no form of crossover capability with the Y-Wing's turret.

It's funny I actually think the Y-wings got a boost with wave 2. The inclusion of set damage aoes like assault missiles and seismic charges and undodgables like the proximity mine mean that the Y-wing's extra health does actually serve a purpose.

Ion’s may not do damage quickly but all you really need is one shot in order to set up an unblockable combo that will obliterate whatever you hit. Y-Wings are also better at taking single high powered shots than A-wings or X-wings. An interceptor will need three turns minimum to take out a Y outside of range 1 (and would need two perfect attacks even then) but can take out an X in two. Falcons may have more health but they’re also much easier to draw a bead on, being much larger and having similar maneuver dials.

Overall the Y-wing can be used to great effect but it can’t be used the same way as the X-wing or A-wing. I think that’s the biggest source of people thinking they’re weak. Some new options couldn’t hurt and the lack of any elite options is a pain but they aren’t as far behind the pack as people think.

We've had a long running thread on the Y-Wing here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=254&efcid=6&efidt=783672

I think the ship works fine as is. I'd like to see some crew and weapons options as mentioned in the other thread merely for the sake of variety, and more accurate ship representation. Non-unique ship identity cards for the BTL S-3 and BTL A-4 solve the upgrade slot issues.

Ok people take a deep breath. First I believe the Y-wing is fine as is. The problem is that it isn't made to be the main ship in a list and people fly it like it is. One Kessel run I played the person who won flew three y-wings and one x-wing. She flew them perfectlydisabling fighters and cleaning them up with the x-wing. The x-wing was the main ship in the list.

Yes new torps would make the Y-wing easier to fly. I like the copilot idea but I think it should be on new pilot cards. I think more pilot cards is a better opption.

Vonpenguin said:

Let's expand those numbers some - say a TIE Interceptor vs one other fighter, 8 attacks (IE., 8 turns).

vs A-Wing, attack dice expected results are 6 blanks, 3 critical, 6 focus, and 9 'hits'. A-Wing expected defensive rolls are 9 blanks, 6 focus, 9 evades. Assuming the TIE used focus on his attacks, that's 15 hits, and assuming the A used focus on his evades, that is 15 evades. 0 hits get through, A-Wing is sailing around undamaged. Note that if the A-Wing had used 'evade' instead of 'focus', he would have blocked 17 attacks instead of 15, the TIE only making 15, which means the A-Wing pilot would be just laughing at the ridiculously poor aim of the poor TIE pilot.

vs X-Wing, attack dice expected results are 6 blanks, 3 critical, 6 focus, and 9 'hits'. X-Wing expected defensive rolls are 6 blanks, 4 focus, 6 evades. Assuming the TIE used focus on his attacks, that's 15 hits, and assuming the X used focus on his evades, that is 10 evades. 5 hits get through, which is just BARELY enough to kill the X-Wing. If the X-Wing had used 'evade' instead of 'focus', he would have blocked 14 of the 15 attacks over those 8 turns, taking one point of damage and leaving him with shields still in place and hull undamaged.

vs Y-Wing, attack dice expected results are 6 blanks, 3 critical, 6 focus, and 9 'hits'. Y-Wing expected defensive rolls are 3 blanks, 2 focus, 3 evades. Assuming the TIE used focus on his attacks, that's 15 hits, and assuming the Y used focus on his evades, that is 5 evades. 10 hits get through, *pop* the Y-Wing (8 damage) is toasted with 2 shots the TIE overkilled him with. Note that if the Y-Wing had used 'evade' instead of 'focus', he'd have to have been living in some kind of dream world, as Y-Wings don't get 'evade'.

(And yes, I'm fully aware dice odds aren't going to be perfectly distributed like that, but the back-of-napkin math works to get you in the rough ballpark of the results. Given how the attack and defense dice work, a few more points of hull+shields isn't even CLOSE to enough to make up for higher 'agility' values. The best way to mitigate damage is to prevent it happening in the first place! …and that's something the Y-Wing just can't do. For something that is going to be killed as quickly as the Y is going to be killed compared to similarly-priced, or even cheaper, fighters…it needs some more options to be more flexible in its support role.)

And so you choose to ignore my point entirely. My argument was that the less attacks you are facing the better the y-wing is, a y-wing that isn’t armed with either ions or protons is a waste and the fact that it will take more damage over eight turns than an X-wing doesn’t matter when it’s payload is expended in two, which it is almost guaranteed to survive in a one on one with every single ship loadout that’s currently available. Which is something that can’t be said of the X-wing and A-wing. They’re more likely to survive long term but if you can’t risk losing it right out of the gate then the y-wing is a better option against smaller more expensive squads.

Also in your example you pointed out that the Y-wing can’t evade but ignored the fact that the X-wing can’t either. Most of your point stands in an eight turn scenario but it’s best to be impartial.

I will admit freely that the Y-wing is not the best dog-fighter, but it’s not meant to be. Flying it like it’s meant to hold the line will lose you the match.

Vonpenguin said:

It's not just "the less attacks you are facing" that changes the picture, but in order for that argument to really work you have to be comparing a relatively low number of SIGNIFICANTLY above-average attacks - IE., getting hits when statistics suggest you should not be - in order for the large hull+shields of the Y-Wing to enter the picture, quickly.

Given the Y-Wing is taking hits at a rate of 5 to 1 compared to an A-Wing, the face that it has more hull and shields in the order of 2 to 1 is largely irrelevant. No matter how small a slice of time you cut it to, it is still taking more hits, and faster, than the difference in hull allows for. (Also to be read as - any series of attacks that can land 4 'hits' past an A-Wings defenses in a single turn can far more easily land 8 'hits' against a Y-Wing.)

Just playing some 'space Yahtzee', here…6 TIE Fighters saddle up to a rebel force and all fire at the same ship, range 2. 12 shots should yield 3 blanks, 1.5 critical, 3 focus, and 4.5 'hits'. Assume they use 'focus' for their attack, that is 9 attacks (crit or hit) that get through.

It's an A-Wing: he rolls across the eight attacks 9 blanks, 6 focus, 9 evades. Given the evade or focus can only be used once, at the odds we are looking at it doesn't really matter which is used - statistically, he gets one defense from it (although it's not uncommon for him to get more - with 6 'focus' results on 8 die rolls, odds are reasonably good that a few of those came up without focus results and maybe one of the results had 2 on it…so potentially the A-Wing held his focus icon waiting for that double and/or the last expected hit - not factoring that in, though, as we don't need to). 10 defense, 9 attacks = no damage.

It's a X-Wing: he rolls across the eight attacks 6 blanks, 4 focus, 6 evades. So one of those focus eyes pops up and he blows his 'focus' on it for one more defense (with 4 'focus' results expected over 8 die throws, it's even possible the X-Wing saw a pair of them come up at once…but it isn't really likely). 7 defense, 9 attacks = 2 damage, which annoys him as he lost his shield. No hull damage, so at least the paint isn't scorched…

It's a Y-Wing: he rolls across the eight attacks 3 blanks, 2 focus, 3 evades. One focus = one more defense. 4 defense, 9 attacks = 5 damage, and he's hanging on by a thread.

The point is that the Y-Wing never, under any conceivable circumstances (other than against an enemy that rolls very few attacks, but they all hit equally accurately against all targets…somehow), will "take more damage…than an X-Wing". Sure it has more hull/shield boxes, but it's just SO MUCH EASIER to hit that the slight advantage in that area does not nearly account for the vastly larger number of hits it will take. As noted, even in the above example, you are taking damage at (divide by zero, but let's say "1") 5 to 1 vs an A-Wing, with only a 2 to 1 hull advantage…and taking hits 2.5 to 1 vs an X-Wing, with only a 1.6 to 1 advantage in hull.

Vonpenguin makes the point perfectly. The Y-wing is a strong fighter, but you have to fly it like a support craft. Hit another ship with an ion cannon, and you know where it's going to be next turn. Peel the Y in a safe direction to prepare the setup for the next target, and plaster the poor sitting duck with an X or an A.

Yes in a straight off gun duel, it's a loser, but as a force multiplier, that changes.

There is a difference between "you have to fly it like a support craft" and "it is more vulnerable than anything else on the board except a standard TIE Fighter, but costs twice as much".

You are creating ridiculous scenarios in order to illustrate the "inferiority" of the Y-Wing.

Instead of 6 TIE at range 2 for 12 dice, try 3 Interceptors at range 1 for those same 12 and see how the Y-Wing holds up compared to X or A Wings. See how you do vs. Han Shoots First, or at range 3 when everybody gets an additional Agility die. For that matter, how are you holding up at range 1 during that first pass? The entire game does not take place at range 2, and the Y-Wing's Agility disadvantage shrinks at both range 1 and range 3. At range 1 because ships have fewer opportunities to roll defense dice, and at range 3 because everybody gets an extra Agl die (so instead of a 3-1 agl advantage the A-Wing now has a 2-1 agl advantage).

You keep wanting to pick the scenario that is the worst possible for the Y-Wing in comparison to other ships then worship your numbers like Gospel. Try eating a Homing Missile from a focused Vader and see how your A or X Wing treat you. How about those 4 hits, one of which is a Crit, while you don't have access to your Evade action. There is a very good chance your A wing evades 1 hit on his agility dice, then goes up in smoke from a single Direct Hit. You assume Focus, but why? Did the A or X shoot already? Did they use their focus to hit? A Y-Wing would take those 3 or 4 hits and keep flying no matter what the Crit said. 2 Focused Homing missiles is absolutely lethal for either of the A or X Wings, but only drops a Y-Wing if they roll all hits and you fail all your evades.

You want to assume every ship is using focus to attack when showing incoming fire, but then turn around and assume every ship is using focus to defend when showing how vulnerable you believe Y-Wings are. If you are playing against people whose ships can focus twice every turn, I suggest that whether or not you are using Y-Wings is the least of your problems. One of the best things about Y-Wings is that if you want to you can just eat that extra point of damage and save the focus for shooting.

If you can't seem to figure out Y-Wings, fine. Stick to the other ships. Y-Wings are not underpowered, in a 1 on 1 they are nearly invincible, especially with Ion Cannons. Grab R2D2 and an Engine Upgrade and see how that Y-Wing works out. Quit trying to out turn TIE fighters, use straight line maneuvers. Koorigan, then green straights for R2D2 goodness, Target Lock and pow. Ion them to death and watch them squirm while you follow along at their 6 and hammer away. See how that Han Shoots First Falcon fares when all 3 (or 4) of your Y-Wings torpedo him on that first turn at range 3. Put your Y-Wings in front of him and Ion him so he flies right into you and spends 2 or 3 turns parked on an asteroid.

All you have done is list scenarios where Y-Wings are flying straight at a bunch of TIEs and somehow magically sit parked in front of them at a constant Range 2, then complain that Y-Wings are not any good at that kind of fight. No kidding. Any other ship has to figure out what speed to go so that they can keep the bad guys in front of them. If you are using Y-Wings, don't bother. Just kick it up to 3 or 4 and if you pass each other, even better.

Are they easy mode fighters? Not at all. But they are far from ineffective. Frankly, if an Ion Cannon Y-Wing were any cheaper it would break the game. If there is any complaint I have, it is that Ion Ys are so good there is almost never a reason to run a Y-Wing without one. Give us some torpedo options, or a new turret, or an elite pilot or two so we can see a little more variety in the Y-Wings that hit the table and I will be a happy camper. But that has nothing to do with Y-Wings being bad, it has to do with Ion Ys being so GOOD.

Well if it helps, my friends and I are still learning the game. We've played twice so far using no upgrades and genreic pilots. In the first game, I piloted badly and spent three rounds in the crosshairs of a TIE fighter before poofing. On the second game, another player piloted the Y-Wing and outlasted an X-Wing and the Millenium Falcon as well as aTIE fighter. Had it lasted another round, it may have outlasted the second TIE and have only the Slave I to contend with.

I think something that weighs in the Y-Wings favor is it's probability of being dismissed. I mean in the movies it didn't really have a stirring impact compared to the X-Wing, and here on the boards there seems to be an balanced faction against it not because it isn't cool but because they think it's worthless. With such thinking, I wouldn't be surprised if a squadron of Y's was laughed at and then lost too simply because the opposition didn't think it had to take them seriously and play well against them. There's also the fact that if you have something large, like the Mellenium Falcon, or something iconic, such as the X-Wing with Skywalker or Antilles, the Y-Wings are probably going to be considered targets of secondary value. When you take into account these "tactics of dismissal", the Y-Wing has a chance of being formidible with a compitent player.

KineticOperator said:

Sure, no problem.

• Range 1, 3 TIE Interceptors…rolling 4 attack die each, so 12 dice in that turn. Expected results are 4.5 hits, 1.5 crit, 3 focus, 3 blank. Using 'focus' on the attack, that is 9 hits.
  
  In defense, the noble X-Wing. Against 3 attacks, rolls an average of 2.25 evades, 1.5 focus, 2.25 blank. Some ugly numbers, there, but let's use the focus token to give him 3 (well, 3.25, but whatever) defense, total. Against 9 attack, 6 damage gets through = *pop*.
  
  A-Wing next. Against 3 attacks, rolls an average of 3 evades, 2 focus, 3 blank. Using a 'focus' on one of those attacks for defense, and he stops 4 damage of the 9. And, yeah, he 'asplodes, too.
  
  Y-Wing finally. Rolls so few dice it's hard to really put numbers to it, but something like 1 evade + .75 focus + 1 blank. It's not that he's LIKELY to roll an 'focus', but assuming he does and puts his 'focus' token on that, he does manage to stop 2 damage of the 9. With only 7 hitting, heck, he manages to survive with a single hull point left! (Of course, he also likely took a ton of crits, there…and if he DIDN'T roll that 'focus' result, he's also toast)
  
  So range 1 against 3 TIE Interceptors is pretty ugly - everyone dies, except maybe the Y-Wing (he has a 57% chance of surviving with at most 1 hull point remaining).
  
• Range 3, 3 TIE Interceptors…rolling 3 attack die each, so 9 dice in that turn. Expected results are 2.7 hits + .9 crit + 1.8 focus + 1.8 blanks. Using 'focus' on the attack, doing some rounding, let's call that 5 hits.
  
  vs X-Wing. Against 3 attacks, with 3 defense dice, now…rolls an average of 2.7 evades, 1.8 focus, 2.7 blank. More ugly numbers, there, but let's use the focus token and round up to give him 4 defense, total. Against 5 attack, 1 damage gets through. Shield plink! 5 turns of this kind of thing, and the X-Wing is gone!
  
  vs A-Wing. Against 3 attacks, with 4 dice, now, rolls an average of 4.5 evades, 3 focus, 4.5 blank. Using a 'focus' on one of those attacks for defense, and round up (as you do with 4.5), he stops 6 damage of the 5. So…no damage at all for the A-Wing. A-Wing can do this all day, you aren't killing it at range 3 with only 3 TIE Interceptors.
  
  vs Y-Wing. Now rolling like a range-1/2 X-Wing! Against 3 attacks, rolls an average of 2.25 evades, 1.5 focus, 2.25 blank. Use the focus token, round like we did for the X-Wing above to give him 3 defense, total. Against 5 attack, 2 damage gets through…worst shield plink, yet. Y-Wing can last 4 turns at this rate.
  
  Moral of the story at range 3? You generally need more than 3 TIE Interceptors to have an effect…

I can keep going all day. The Y-Wing, at any range, vs nearly any number of attackers over any number of turns (including a single turn!), simply takes damage far faster than any other platform, at a rate that considerably exceeds its hull and shield advantage. Your entire argument hinges on "assume this attack hits, and marvel at how much better the Y-Wing takes damage", which is not relevant - as in MAKING the assumption that 'the attack hits' you automatically bias the situation in favor of the Y-Wing. The problem isn't that the Y-Wing can't "take a single weapon hit better than the other fighters" - of course it can - the problem is that while it can 'take the hit' 50%-100% better than the other fighters (depending on what you are comparing it to), it's 200%-500% more likely to be hit in the first place by any attack, at any range.

The Y-Wing's resiliency issues aren't as bad as how little damage it does in proportion to how well armored it is. I wouldn't mind the 1 agility dice and high health if it had a decent chance of maiming or killing a TIE Fighter with a decent shot. Though Ions usually do one damage apiece, this is not enough against most imperial lists. You need 3+ Y-Wings to be effective at killing a TIE Fighter each turn.

xanderf -

You still insist that every ship has focus available for both attack and defense, which is not the case. A Gold Squadron Y-Wing is generally using TL, which improves his firepower substantially more than focus would have while most X or A wings will not. Also, there are considerations such as front-loading and variability, neither of which factor into your calculations. I doubt you have a solid enough grasp of actuarials to understand the point, because it has been made by myself and by other posters repeatedly here and in other threads without even an acknowledgement by you. You also completely ignore the ridiculous power of ionizing ships, especially ones with stress tokens. Regardless, you are convinced that your spreadsheet shows Y-Wings are bad, so don't use them. You aren't convincing anybody who plays them well. 1 on 1 Wedge vs. Horton and it will go to Horton 90% of the time.

Norsehound -

As for firepower, I actually agree. That is the main knock against both Y-Wings and A-Wings, it takes forever to try to kill a TIE fighter. However, the Ion Cannon can go a long way towards equalizing this, since the 1 damage limit is generally pretty much a non-issue compared to a 2d shot from an A wing that almost certainly won't hit at all much less for 2. At least with 3d you have a good chance of getting that one hit. This isn't so much a problem of balance as time. It takes forever to chew through a 6+ TIE list, and as long as tournament games are limited to 60 or 75 minutes it is unlikely that Y-Wing heavy lists will be successful because their best games are marathons, not sprints. The best tactic I have found so far is to Ionize a TIE, then park as many Y-Wings on him point blank and out of his arc as I can so I can get 3d primaries. Still, even when it goes perfectly it is slow, slow, slow. Alternately, fly the edge of the table and Ionize incoming TIEs so they fly off the edge.

Incidentally, watch 2 players with 6+ TIE swarms try to table each other within the time limit. No matter how you cut it, 2d attacks vs. 3d defense takes forever to kill anything.

For the benefit of those reading along:

Front loading is the idea that damage incurred early is far more dangerous than damage incurred late. Ex: You run Wedge and he is killed first turn by a lucky shot from a Homing Missile. There is a good chance you will lose the game because of that, where losing him later in the game (when he has had a chance to shoot a few times) to that same lucky shot is nowhere near as devastating. Watch at a tournament, you can virtually guarantee one or more "Elite ship" lists will be eliminated due to a single bad round of shooting early in a game.

Variability is the idea that an average is not the same thing as an expectation. For example, whether you plan on rolling 4 dice or 50 dice, the average expected roll is the same. On the other hand, it is far more likely that you hit with all 4 dice than you would hit with all 50. So, look at our Y-Wing vs. A-Wing example. Assume you are shot at by an Interceptor at range 1 and he rolls 4 hits. Depending on your roll, an A-Wing may escape with 1 damage or he may be eliminated. A Y-Wing will take 3 or 4 damage and remain, regardless. An unlucky roll at this point will cost the A-Wing player dearly, the Y-Wing player will have another opportunity for the dice to "even out". Even though the A-Wing takes less "average" damage he is much more vulnerable to the potential for a bad roll than the Y-Wing player.

One more point on figuring "average" damage taken. In that same example, say the Interceptor only rolls one hit. If the Y-Wing rolls an evade he takes 0 damage and if he rolls a blank he takes 1. If an A-Wing rolls 1 evade he takes 0 damage as well, but if he rolls MORE than 1 evade, all those other evades are "wasted". This matters because in a straight calculation of averages, rolling a 1 then rolling a 4 gives you an "average" of 2.5. But if the guy shooting at you had the same "average" but the rolls were 4 then 1, you would have taken 3 damage. Basically, "extra" hits are always valuable but "extra" evades count as 0 when figuring out damage taken over time. This reduces the "average" damage evaded dramatically when being shot at by small attacks (say, by the 6 TIE fighters quoted so often).

Up until last week I has completely written off the Y-Wing. Not enough firepower with its primary weapn, sucky Proton Torpedoes, no Elite Pilot Talents, having to take the Ion Cannon, the Ion Cannon always causing a single damage, terrible maneuver dial… but then I witnessed it up against a Tie Interceptor and it was awesome.

Boost and Barrel roll meant nothing against 360 degree fire and the Y-Wing was free to fly very unpredictably and erratically making him hard to get into range 1 (or once IOn Cannoned, to get ashot off at all). In 3 turns, Turr Fenir did 3-4 damage but was wiped out. Moreover, Turr had been sent round the back of the rest of the squadron (3 X-Wings) and would otherwise have been either obliterating them from behind while they took on the mass of TIEs or causing one X-Wing to peel off,reducing their ability to focus fire.

I think the Y-Wing may have found its niche with Wave 2.

And flying it as a rear-guard was a very nice tactic I've not seen before.

vs

Did I see some forum math in here?

I've found that the easiest fix for y-wing performance issues is to A) learn where to place it in a formation, and B) learn how to properly maneuver with it. I used to be a y-wing detracter. No more! I've been running in a league, and one of the missions was to use one x-wing to escort a "damaged" y-wing off the map. Only 1 and 2 maneuvers were legal for the y-wing. It had no additional armament or droids. I was forced to fly it in support, behind my x-wing. Using slow, fluid, tai chi movements, I inched it off the board, outflying the ties and scoring multiple kill shots, even after my x-wing was shot down. I can't wait to use one again when I can deck it out.