Trying to think of something different for my next campaign, something struck my mind. What if a situation arose that was so awful for the PCs that they would be dumbfounded for a while? It isn't something hard to do in Dark Heresy but I had an idea.

I know that in some novel there was a half-eldar child, if I'm not mistaken, which means procreation between both species is possible. Of course I'm not going to do such a thing though, too cheesy I guess. But my idea was to spread a rumor about a twisted xeno cult dedicated to creating those half-breeds. Still have to flesh things out a bit, and such a cult wouldn't exist, it would be a rumor sending the PCs on a wild goose chase that may lead them to other things.

Still, I will have to flesh this out so I'm turning to you all. How biologically possible do you think it would be for procreation to happen, and would a rumor of such a cult be easily dismissed as something quite impossible and not worthy of investigation? No use in having this idea if in the end the Inquisition will dismiss it entirely.

Biologically speaking, two different species can't interbreed. That's what makes them different species. Of course, 40K is pretty far from hard SF so that particular reality may not be relevant.

Besides, even if it is biologically impossible and those who understand biology know it's impossible, that doesn't mean the common Imperial citizen would know that. After all, the Imperium isn't big on science education. So even if the acolytes know it's theoretically impossible to interbreed humans and eldar that doesn't mean there can't be a xenos cult dedicated to trying. Such a cult is still darkly heretical and potentially dangerous, even if their stated goal is unachievable... and the chance that they some strange xeno-tech or warp-magic that might make the impossible possible is a risk not to be ignored.

"Interbreeding" could simply refere to a heretical cult trying to combine human and xenos genes to create the perfect creature. That'd be hugely wrong and just the rumour would be sure to send the Inquisition sniffing.

As mentioned, species can't usually breed, but there's plenty of ways to achieve the next best thing. And who can really tell the difference?

Generally, the story you mentioned, with the half Eldar child, was by C.S Goto, and generally, he's notorious for messing with the fluff and forgetting important facts to the 40Kverse that simply should not be tinkered with. In one of his stories and Eldar grows it's arm back, compeltley forgetting that it had been chopped off 2 pages before hand -.-

MGBM said:

Creation through natural means - no chance. The species are too different genetically, and it's extremely unlikely that any Eldar would even attempt it (consider that even the depraved and twisted Dark Eldar consider human beings to be little more than herd animals).

Creation through artificial means - difficult, but possible enough that the notion is considered a dangerous heresy by both the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy: the alteration of 'pure' human genetics with the introduction of xenos genes is known as the Transgenic Blasphemy.

The Dark Eldar do make grotesques and what not by Frankensteinian science or whatever. I could see a Cabal of these vile evil Eldar creating hybrid monstrosities of eldar and humans, mainly to have fun but also to cast fear into their enemies.

LuciusT said:

Not 100% true...lions and tigers can interbreed, the offspring being a liger or tigon depending on which animal is the mother and which is the father.

If there are enough similarities between species, interbreeding is possible, however the resulting offspring is infertile

I'd imagine something like the Edge of Darkness scenario with a mad Heretek trying to breed killing machines. There would probably even be some Mechanicus action as they try hunt down this blasphemous oparation.

If two species interbreed and there offspring can breed then it means there the same species.

But in our world (as far i know) neither slanesh or tzeench, is bending the rules of nature, and am pretty sure some tech heretics would explorer this heresy in order to become much more resistant to ageing.

I am the only one thinking of a fraudulant cross-breed being a great campaign hook here? An insidious plot to undermine Imperial rule on a planet by spreading the rumour that Eldar are related to humans, with a number of "Half-Eldar" making rousing speaches to the underclasses to throw off their shackles and join with their Eldar bretheran rather than the vile, iron-fisted rule of their Imperial overloards?

Now would that be Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus territory?

I don't think human and eldar procreation is possible - but a lab grown hybrid or human implanted with Eldar tissue/ograns could happen. Now, AFAIK there have been instances with favored humans living amongst eldar for a time (Inquisitor Csevak?). Such a person would probably absorb quite a bit of their culture if this was for a period of years. Now, what would happen if two such individuals had a child while living amongst "the alien" and said child grew to maturity on a craftworld? Factor in what the eldar apparently know about the Tyrant Star and that kid's got an interesting homecoming.

As shown in "Xenology", although the Eldar genitalia are analogous to human, their DNA is made of four stands, not two. Thus normal procreation would not be possible, because the genes would not replicate right at the very least.

user4574 said:

That's true, but Lions and Tigers share a common ancestor and are seperated by only a very slim genetic difference.

Eldar and humans are creatures from different worlds . Not to mention that although Eldar look similar to humans, they're very different genetically.

It'd be like getting a spider monkey and human to breed.

in the original Rogue Trader book humans can interbeed with eldar and there's whole communities of half-eldar as a result.

Interesting. Thanks for the replies, all!

I'm looking more into forming some sort of cult that will spread rumors of half-eldars and such, but I do need to know the basis of it being possible or not, in order to twist the truths and lies into something the imperial citizens would believe in easily.

A cult using these lies to destabilize a planet's ruler in order to take over could be feasible.

Check out the first chapter of the second Eisenhorn book Malleus, it contains information on a cult of human xenophiles allied with the Dark Eldar. This could help you out with the fluff, of how the Inquistion views any interaction with the Dark Eldar, which is propbably your best bet.

Action_Carl said:

Yup this is another one of those things that have been changed over the years. Basically in Rogue Trader edition days it was possible but nowadays it's not really possible without mad sorcery or insane experiments of the forbidden type.

In fact from back in the day there was a blurb about an Eldar/Human Astropath Librarian worked with the Ultramarines (something that myself and some other use to wind up our local Ultramarine players lol).

Luckily as Idaan pointed out, GW has retconned the interbreeding of eldar and humans through Xenology's discussion on their DNA, which would make any kind of breeding impossible.

Not only are they different species, they are from completely seperate evolutionary families. Every living thing on earth has a common ancestor (for your definition of living), so humans are more closely related to CRABS, bacteria, and fungus than they are to the eldar.

There is this terrible fallacy in scifi that phenotype somehow means genotype. Just because a dolphin and a shark look similar doesn't mean they are reproductively compatible. Yet somehow because humans and other aliens from various scifi universes LOOK similar they are somehow magically genetically compatible.

No offence to the OP, this is just a bugbear of mine in general. Unless a sentient alien is from the same genetic history as a human there is no chance it will be reproductively compatible (ok there IS a VERY small chance that life on another planet evolves in such a similar fashion that its DNA ends up very similar to humanity's, to the point where interbreeding is possible. They may look like a toad though. It's also in infintesimily small percentages).

Hellebore

But the Half-Elf is such a staple of fantasy!

Right back to Tolkien and even before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-elven

We gotta have Half-Eldar or there is a huge tranche of elf-lore we just can't use.

It seems to me that often people try to bring to much reality into fantsay settings. If you want half-eldar and your players don't mind then more power to you. Now obviousely there has to be a basis of reality but I mean come on its a game if that's what works for OP than good for him. If you are more realistic in your fantasy than no crossbreeds for you!

Just a thought...

Sol Invictus said:

Well it depends where you draw the line at 'reality'. To me, gravity is as certain as genetics, so they are just as 'real'. I doubt you would decide gravity didn't apply in your games because it broke with the concept of reality (unless we are talking anti gravity, which still requires gravity to exist).

To me, the only time unnatural things should happen is if the setting's macguffin-get-out-of-explanation-free-card is used to explain it. In 40k, that is the warp. So the warp fusing human and eldar together to create hybrids is entirely possible because as magic it can do whatever it wants.

Magic is the best literary device for ignoring reality. Rather than spurn its overuse people should be applauded for modifying reality with magic instead of trying to justify changing reality.

Hellebore

Excellent discussion!

However....

I was under the impression that the Eldar male adds genetic material to the egg/fetus at different times. How do they decide which genes to pass to the embryo? If they are able to control the genes they pass on, why couldnt an Eldar male control the genes he passed on to a human female? Perhaps I read it incorrectly.

The reason you have half Eldar in Fantasy is that the creatures on a world are all thought to have been descended from common ancestral creatures. They myths tend to say "The Elves were created first, and were flawed; then came humans and so forth......"

As someone said, Eldar are from another world altogether than humans. BUT since they are millions of years more advanced than mankind, how do we know that mankind in the 40k Universe isnt somehow related to the Eldar, perhaps an experiment, or perhaps there were stranded Eldar who needed servants, and thus crafted earth creatures with the Eldar DNA. Who knows? Its your game, do what you want. I for one pay way too much for my DH tomes, and I am not going to let anyone dictate how my world evolves.

I personally will allow humans and Eldar to reproduce in my world. The quadruple helix DNA will be dominant in the embryo, the human DNA will only express itself in subtle ways. You will basically have an Eldar looking human, albeit a person with an incredible story to tell. Its is all about the role played, isnt it? If your player can act the part, and play the part well, let him do it.

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Idaan said:

Not if even the Eldar have forgotten...

To return to the OP's point: Imperial Citizans know very, very little about their world, especially over matters which concern Xenos or other threats, they are simply taught that the Eldar are depraved inhuman monsters to be feared. The idea of a hybrid would probably strike more loyal and upstanding citizans as utterly preposterous and perhaps even dangerous heresy, more liberally minded citizans may give the rumour some weight but would probably dismiss it as another lie.

However if there were some "evidence" to go with it, be it holo-picts or illicit pamphlets purporting to be from a rogue inquisitor or perhaps a few high-profile appearances to generate a lot of independant witnesses the the rumour would have some more wieght to it and people would start to question what they had been previously taught about the Eldar and about the world in general. I'd expect this to be the point at which the inquisition would step in.

So yeah, the rumour would probably need someone driving it to get through the indoctrinated ignorance of the imperium. However if it did so then it would become dangerous irregardless of whether or not it was plausable or not. Part of the job of the Inquisition is to maintain the veil of ignorance which holds the Imperium together.