Simply put there is way to much varience, in my opnion, in regards to the structure of the Regional Events.

Given that FFG is taking the time to hold thier World Championships and offer entry into that event through the Regionals, it doesn't make any sense for there to be next to no stanard format for the Regionals to be run with.

We've seen 8-10 person events, some featuring a Top 4, some being Swiss, some being what looked Single Elimination throgh the report. There has been larger 16-18 person events, some with a Top 4, one with a Top 8, and one just 5 rounds of Swiss. It's all over the place.

FFG should just include in thier Regional packet a basic event format. If you have X amount of players you play X amount of rounds, with a Top X cut. Something along those lines, just to provide a standardized experience without alienating smaller venues. Right now it is left up to the TO or venue, and to be fair I worry about some venue's ability to structure an event to a standard that is worthy of the type of status and prizing that FFG seems to want to go into the Regional events.

Opinions?

No, continue to let the TOs do what works best for their players and venue. I don't see what benefit "standarization" brings that would outweigh the potential cost of alienating the people running and playing in these events.

The Empire Brings Sexy Back said:

This exactly. To each their own.

The Empire Brings Sexy Back said:

For starters you have the simple consistency factor across events. Players know what to expect when they travel (which is what the regional encourage) and TOs aren't placed in odd positions about not only running events but determing tornament format.

Also it seems FFG wants to promote thier Organized Play format. They've moved thier Championships to thier own Headqurters expanded there Regional events and continue to offer invites to the Championships through those events. They even mandate the date in which certain venues need to run thier events. So whats taking it that small step further. It would add to the prestiage of the event in the eyes of alot of more competetive gamers getting into these games if there was a little organization to the organized play.

In what way do you feel that a mandated tournament structure would be alienating to players or venues? 12 entries today thats 4 rounds Swiss and a Top 4 etc etc. I don't see how that would be alienating to anyone. It's not as if I'm suggesting some minimum level of attendance to count as a real regional or anything of that nature. Just an actual format guidline.

And I'm not talking about self organized tournaments I'm taking only about Regional events.

I fully agree with ScottieATF. If there are going to be official regional tournaments, then there should be official regoinal tournament standards. Every tournament should be run exactly the same way. If I travel a few hours to get to a tournament, I want to know that it is being run the official way, and not the way the local group likes to play it. We had a situation where a local store's TO decided that he wanted to forgoe FFGs scoring system in X-wing and choose something their local group liked using and it caused issues. There should be no ambiguity or leway.

After experiencing the first regional here in Texas this last weekend, I do see problems with their format. Though I am not completely thinking it needs too much of an overall either.

One complaint: the time games are played. At least this first go round of regionals, the time should be at 70 minutes and not 60. I had a horrible experience in that 3 of my games went to time at the regionals (all would have been wins in a 70 minute game). The reason I say this is because most of the people there had never experienced a tournament for the game. out of the 16 players we had 12 of them were playing for the first time. I sat down against one opponent and his exact quote, "This is my 6th time playing this game." After the first round of regionals, change it to 60 minutes and make that across the board, but for now understand that new players are first coming out to these regional events and it can be a negative experience. I didn't want to be a pain and call for the judge, but next time at a Regional, I will.

Second complaint: Time event is held. The reason the TO made the games 60 minutes was because of the start time. He started the event at 5 pm!!!! FFG needs to make it where the event starts within the times 11 to 1.

EDIT: I also am not a fan of the scorecard. Needs to have a running or some type of way to record strength of schedule.

As a TO, my answer is pretty simple: hell yeah they should.

Here all the things FFG should require- posted start time- set up time- (maybe with some leeway for large events)- that the games start on time-that the entire tournament lasts one day- that there is a limit to game time- now I don't think that they should say start time has to be so early, or that it has to be at a game store. If I have 15 players that play in my game room at my house and have room for 10 more why can't I host a game night? or a regionals? I agree there has to be an official time frame but if I say that's 1AM-7AM and can get 10-15 players why shouldn't that be okay? I agree that a clear schedule should be posted and set by FFG and not by local TO's. If they call a break I just don't have time for in finals cuz their buddy is hungry, or give me an extra break cuz I dove 2 hours to play-that's not OK. I recongize that no one can predict how many people will show up, but a solid required schedule would be nice-something like posted arrival time- set up =15 minutes +5 minutes per 15 players game start-game limit-

just Logan said:

In regards to this thread, this is not what I'm taking about at all. While I agree that a 5pm start time on a Saturday is a bit absurd (and to a lesser extent so is going with the low end round time for a new game), I was not at all commenting on the timing of the event (beyond round length which is apart of tournament rules). I was only commenting on the tournament format, rounds, top cut, etc. These are apart of the current tournament packet but extremely open ended

Couldn't agree more with Scottie. Well said

And I agree with you as well. They should all be Swiss tournaments with a certain number of players playing a semi-final round if so many players are in attendence. That should be something FFG is legalistic about. Maybe it will change if they notice this thread and people are concerned.

Rogue 4 said:

FFG doesn't really do much on thier own forums so I don't expect that. I just wanted to see what others thought. But they have asked venue's and TOs for feedback on how they can make the Regional Event better

While there haven't been any SW horror stories so far, there has been a Netrunner Regional that turned away anyone that did not preregister just to keep down attendance (someone drove 3 hours to find that out) and ended the tournament before stated number of rounds were utilized. And another X-wing Regional that apparently just abandoned the point structure.

I agree that there should be more strict guidelines, but I don't see a real need to wholly standardize regionals right now. The game is still new. Many if not most of the players are rather unaware many card interactions; I corrected players when they said that you couldn't use questionable contacts after it flips up, that you can't use shields on protected damage and that you can use shields to prevent focus tokens placed by the opponent. I would love to see a guideline that includes size… perhaps something like

<8 players = 3 rounds cut to top 2 optional

8-13 players = 3 rounds and cut to top 2 OR 4 rounds and cut to top 2 optional

14-19 players = 4 rounds and cut to top 4 OR 5 rounds and cut to top 2

20-25 players = 5 rounds and cut to top 6 or 6 rounds and cut to top 4

Additionally, a few other specific things would be exceptionally useful from a player's/director's side of things. Standardized starting times: e.g. tournament must start with enough time to finish the main rounds before 6pm with a 30 minute added time for between round breaks (5 round tournament can't start later than 12:30 pm local with 60 minute rounds or 11:40 am local for 70 minute rounds). Standardized round times be set at exactly 30 minutes per game with a 5 minute shuffling allotment (this is to prevent a game 1 going long and using up a majority of the time in a match). Allowances for byes to pass down to allow for players to 'collect' regional championships without hindering other players from attaining a bye or deincentivizing playing in multiple regionals after winning. A copy of the FAQ and Rules included in each tournament packet with updates pertaining to recent sets. Rules issued regarding odd interactions: e.g. A shield token vs Succumb to the Cold or Intimidated. Recommended deck builds for new/newer players. Random useful things pertaining to the game: e.g. a miniturized version of the action windows and proceedings of play e.g:

1. Balance

A. DS player's turn, increase Deathstar Dial by 1 then increase it another time if the DS controls the force

B. LS player's turn, if the LS player controls the force he deals 1 damage to an objective of his choice

2. Refresh

A. Remove 1 focus token from card in the play area (or 2 from a card if it is elite)

B. Remove all shield tokens from cards you own in play

C. If the current player has <3 objectives on table, replace objectives from the top of the objective deck until you have 3 objectives out

D. Trigger reactions based on : If you just refreshed…

E. Action window … etc.

Lots of little things like this could make a huge impact on getting newer players to help understand the game and help promote the game.

Rogue 4 said:

Ha! I saw those on the supprt section, I'm glad I'm not the only one that didn't really like them.

TOs, if you want an alternate score card, I know a guy…

Yikes, I even like my quick photoshop job on the SWCCG score cards better than those. So much wasted space by using 2 lines per game and 4 per match instead of just circling LS/DS on one line for each game.

ScottieATF said:

sorry if I got side tracked- Format swiss- rounds open- there can be a "Championship bracket" but that is optional too. Are you asking that they change this? I totally agree- by stated rules there don't even have to be finals of any sort. I'm actually ok with this. Are you asking if they should say something like 3 rounds-no finals-60 min games boom that's a regional. well they could and that's exactly how I would run it, but many would be unhappy with this or any other variation. say 5 people show up- say 100 show up - say top tier players really think they deserve more games than everyone else. I'm about an hour away from any regional-I would expect to get to play against at least 3 people that's 6 hours of pure game play.give a 20 min set up and 10 min betweeen games that's almost 7 hours. That's a lot for some people. but lets say I had 30 people who were willing to play for 10 hours straight 2 days in a row- can I host 2 regionals back to back? can I say my regionals is 14 rounds? What if only 2 people show up?

Logan I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.

I'll reiterate my point.

FFG should just as apart of thier Regional Event packet include a chart breaking down a set tournament format depending on number on players. This allows a consistent experience across all events while allowing for smaller and larger regional events. It allows traveling players some level of expectation, takes sone pressure off of TOs, ensures that venues that may not know the game at all won't muck something up, and ensures at least some level of coherency for an event that is suppose to be a seeding for the World Championships. Because thats what the Regional events are. Local "top-tier" players (which makes no sense at this juncture) shouldn't be able to lobby to change tournament format for an event used to seed the World Cjampionships, that doesn't make sense.

Once FFG decided to make a Championship with Regional qualifiers, they essentially obligated themselves to maintaining the integrity of their competetive circuit. Those traveling to events should know *exactly* what to expect when they show up. They should not, say, drive three hours to find out that the TO has decided (foolishly and unfairly) to run a single-elimination event. Furthermore, allowing free-rein gives TOs the opportunity to abuse the system for their friends; imagine this scenario: Bob is running a regional and there are 10 players. After 7 rounds of Swiss, Bob only then decides what his cut will be. Seeng that his buddy Carl is in fifth place, Bob decides that they'll do a top 8. Maybe it was a conscience decision on Bob's part to amanipulate the event or maybe his bias didn't even cross his mind, regardless Bob abused the system and altered the chances for everyone at that event to have a fair shot at gaining the seed to the Championships. This undercuts the integrity of the entire series and further encourages other TOs to "just say screw it" and compromise their own events.

This is what competetive play is: making as certain as you can that players advance based solely on the merit of their abilities and not on vagarities of whim. So in summation: it is impossible for me to agree with Scott any more than I already do.

The Empire Brings Sexy Back said:

Agreed. These LCGs are not popular enough to "force" anyone to a rigid scheme. No one is falling over themselves to play these games yet and in order to get players TOs need a go along to get along style to make the local base of players happy.

There are also reccomendations in the SWLCG Tounament Rules booklet outlined. I think as long as TOs are following what FFG has outlined then its fine.

Sorry for the seperate post, but I wanted to add:

If FFG really wanted the standardization of regionals they would schedule the tournaments in authorized game shops and in such a manner that they could send out FFG employees as a "Traveling Tournament Organizaiton Squad" or something. That way they have professionals who do this for a living and not rely on amature volunteer TOs. As long as they rely on volunteers like myself there will be a certain amount of variance. Everyting from rule and FAQ interpertation to structure and prizes.

Also some have brought up fixing tournaments. Is there no way of bringing this to FFG to complain? I think in the long run if a TO is fixing a tourney and enough people complain FFG would stop giving that TO/shop regionals, and people would stop comming to those events anyways.

Just my 2 cents.

If someone is fixing a tournament email FFGs organized play and report them.

And how would you know that someone was fixing the tournament without standardized rules?

Rob Martin said:

If you are going to a tournament and driving 3 hours I would email first to make sure there is a complete set of rules. Any gray/fuzzy areas should be exposed. You will always have to do some of the ground work, sorry its just how life is. If everything is spelled out and a TO changes something like last 8 to last 4 b/c his friend did better than expected or if he is sneaking in extra points to his friends you should be able to see it on the leaderboards. And if the TO isnt showing leader boards publicly that is probably not a tourney you want to go to.

Whether or not someone is driving 3 hours is irrelevant outside of the fact that it heightens any feelings of unfairness. As the rules stand, no TO has to have a set-in-stone plan and/or divulge it beforehand. With a basic set of formatting rules, this becomes unnecessary.

flightmaster101 said:

flightmaster101 said:

I, too, am a card game TO (just not for SWLCG) and I can tell you that in no way does structure infringe upon my ability to put on a great event; in fact, it prevents any misconceptions and their resulting hard feelings on the part of players and shields me against impressions of misconduct from someone who didn't like the way something turned out. It's simply professional.

Regardless, the suggestion that unless FFG commits extravagant resources to hiring teams of professionals to conduct their events, then nothing else should be done to ensure the intregrity of the events simply does not hold water. No company, to my knowledge, does that - even that big card game that some people play professionally; those games still manage to maintain a fair and well-respected competetive circuit.

Finally, the suggestions that nothing needs to be done because there hasn't been any known cases of obvious fixing also is irresponsible. Besides, with such leeway given to TOs, one would either need to hear the TO specifically state that he/she is making a decision for deceitful purposes or possess telepathy. In my above example, it is Bob's right as a TO to cut to top 8 instead of 4 even if he flat out stated that he did it to help is friend. *Maybe* FFG wouldn't give him a tourney next time around, but even if that were the case, that doesn't help anyone after the horse has already left the barn, as it were.

Standardization is simply the nature of comepitive play. Those of us who play in and run competetive events for competitive games know this as fact. If FFG doesn't want this to be competitive, that's fine - but then they need to reformat their play structure and not have Regionals and Championships. Furthermore, if players and TOs don't want competetive play, then that is fine too - to each their own - but these events are competitive and you should not feel that it is your right to do whatever you feel like. FFG has essentially subcontracted out their qualifying events to various TOs around the country and that brings with it certain responsibilities that should be taken seriously, many of which have directly to do with the integrity of the circuit's fairness.

I never said FFG needs to hire a team, I simply said IF THEY WANTED absolute control over the regionals that would be a way of donig so. They obviously are less concerend than some on this forum.

Obviously you are very passionate about this, but I dont appreciate being told a point of mine doesnt hold water after you have spun it into a straw argument.

If you really want something done stop bitching on the forums and tell FFG. In fact this may be a fantastic buisiness oportunity for you. Get a meeting, make a presentation to them and sell them on your way of doing things with you as the executor for a nice salary.

And nothing NEEDS to be done. To say this needs to be done when AGOT has been going on like this for years is improper. And after Monday I wouldnt use the word need in association with hobbies or recreation. At the end of the day if people dont like what is happening they will walk away. It will not impact the health wellbeing and saftey of them or their families, and FFG will move on to a new product line to sell.