Miniatures

By Igrevion, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

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I am new to Descent, and this type of board game in general, although I used to play games like Dark World and Dragon Strike when I was younger. Me and my cousins were reminiscing about these old games and were thinking of playing them again. I read some good things about Descent on Boardgame Geeks and after looking it up I decided to buy it, as well as the lair of the wyrm expansion.

We played it for the first time this week, and found it to be a blast. The cards and especially miniatures look very high quality and well made. They definitely did not skimp out.
But one thing we were disappointed about was the fact that it didn't come with any miniatures for the lieutenants. It just didn't feel right that there were these amazing miniatures for the regular monsters, but disappointing flat cardboard chits for the lieutenants. We soon learned, after visiting the website, that FFG was planning on selling pewter miniatures for these lietenants at $10 each. This annoyed me a bit, to say the least, but I enjoyed the game so I decided to to buy them.
But then, I learned that two of the of the lieutenants (Merrick and Alric Farrow) are listed as "not available". Another one (Lady Farrow) looks to be available but when I tried to order her, it said "out of stock", and the other three (Splig, Belthir and Zachareth) are listed as "not yet available". I wasn't able to get any information on the miniature for Valyndra. What is going on here? Are they selling these miniatures or aren't they? While I admit, at $10 a piece they are pricey, I'd still be willing to buy them. And I'd be much happier purchasing cheaper plastic versions all together if FFG were to offer them in a package deal to make the game seem more complete.
I'm hoping, that with the reduced cost of 3D printing, they'll be able to sell more miniatures at a more reasonable price in the future. The main reason I didn't buy the Conversion Kit was because it did not include the miniatures. It'd be nice to have the option to buy these miniatures, as well as miniatures for the NPCs in the game. Right now the game feels a bit incomplete without these miniatures. I'm new to these types of games so I don't have any proxy miniatures I can use (I guess Dragon Strike would have had the closest miniatures, but I no longer have that game).
I would have preferred it if they had, perhaps, fewer monsters and npcs in the game so that they could have made miniatures for everyone. As much fun as the game is, the inconsistency of using flat pieces of cardboard for the lieutenants next to the awesome miniatures for the monsters bothers me. I'm a bit anal about things like that. Does anyone agree? Is FFG planning on releasing more figures to supplement the game?
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I personally do not require miniatures for everything. For example, Mage Knight: The Board Game (not an FFG production) uses miniatures for only the heroes and villain. All other monsters are cardboard chits. The game itself is excellent and ranks at number 1 or 2 of "fantasy" genre on BGG.

However, I agree that cardboard lieutenants look dull. I believe the glamor of the token should reflect its rank. I am fine with NPCs and familiars getting cardboard chits. However, if regular monsters get plastic miniatures, lieutenants should get something more. At the very least, a unique color or a paint job. Apart from price, the metal miniatures from Descent: Road to Legend and Sea of Blood were perfect, because lieutenants were superior to regular monsters, and so were their miniatures.

I also agree that the Conversion Kit feels incomplete without the miniatures. I can't see why FFG won't release a "miniatures" pack; considering the molds are already done. If they honestly believed metal lieutenants would sell for the first edition (and I don't think they sold well), I'm surprised if they don't think a miniatures pack wouldn't be the equivalent of a money printer for them. Maybe I'm just missing something.

As far as everything requiring a miniature, well… the more you have, the more you want. Gotta draw the line. Cardboard has its use for things of lesser rank than a hero or monster, I would say!

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Igrevion said:

But one thing we were disappointed about was the fact that it didn't come with any miniatures for the lieutenants. It just didn't feel right that there were these amazing miniatures for the regular monsters, but disappointing flat cardboard chits for the lieutenants. We soon learned, after visiting the website, that FFG was planning on selling pewter miniatures for these lietenants at $10 each. This annoyed me a bit, to say the least, but I enjoyed the game so I decided to to buy them.
I can certainly understand how you feel. There was a legitimate reason why the LTs in first edition were cardboard tokens, so I wasn't entirely surprised to see the same pattern in 2E, though I would have preferred if they made proper minis for the new edition's LTs as well. Clean break and all that.

Igrevion said:

But then, I learned that two of the of the lieutenants (Merrick and Alric Farrow) are listed as "not available". Another one (Lady Farrow) looks to be available but when I tried to order her, it said "out of stock", and the other three (Splig, Belthir and Zachareth) are listed as "not yet available". I wasn't able to get any information on the miniature for Valyndra. What is going on here?
The Farrows were LTs in first edition as well, so their miniatures were previously available on FFG's store. They appear to have gone out of print along with everything else 1E. We assume that they will be re-released for 2E along with the other three (new) LT minis, although that seems to be taking its sweet time for reasons undisclosed.
As far as I know there hasn't been any official announcement about a Valyndra mini yet, though it stands to reason one would be forthcoming if any of these 2E LT minis ever get off the ground.
Igrevion said:
Are they selling these miniatures or aren't they? While I admit, at $10 a piece they are pricey, I'd still be willing to buy them. And I'd be much happier purchasing cheaper plastic versions all together if FFG were to offer them in a package deal to make the game seem more complete.
According to my limited understanding of the manufacturing process, I think a package of 6 plastic minis would be far more expensive than the pewter minis they're producing. I'm told that plastic minis are hands down the most expensive component in most board games. It may not seem so expensive when you're buying a whole game, but the minis alone would account for the lion's share of the sticker price, if sold separately.
Igrevion said:
I would have preferred it if they had, perhaps, fewer monsters and npcs in the game so that they could have made miniatures for everyone. As much fun as the game is, the inconsistency of using flat pieces of cardboard for the lieutenants next to the awesome miniatures for the monsters bothers me. I'm a bit anal about things like that. Does anyone agree? Is FFG planning on releasing more figures to supplement the game?

Their plans regarding LT minis are more or less announced. How long it will take is unclear, but we know what they're planning.

I doubt they'll be releasing mini packs for the conversion kit (though I have been wrong about such things in the past.) The conversion kit was really intended for people who already bought everything from first edition and may not have wanted to upgrade to second edition if it meant leaving behind all these heroes and monsters they knew and loved.

There are lots of newcomers to 2E who have bought the Conversion Kit anyway and either found or made proxies for the figures described therein. There are more than a few threads about that over on BGG. If you'd rather not buy the CK without proper minis that is, of course, your prerogative.

Edit: Well, this post appears to have exploded in some interesting and unique ways…

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Steve-O said:

The Farrows were LTs in first edition as well, so their miniatures were previously available on FFG's store. They appear to have gone out of print along with everything else 1E. We assume that they will be re-released for 2E along with the other three (new) LT minis, although that seems to be taking its sweet time for reasons undisclosed.

Hi Stephen…did you know Christian Petersen of FFG made a post on BGG saying they were doing something "different" with the 2E lieutenant minis? I think this explains the delay! It also means the 2E minis (including the Farrows) will probably be different from the 1E ones.

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Artaterxes said:

Hi Stephen…did you know Christian Petersen of FFG made a post on BGG saying they were doing something "different" with the 2E lieutenant minis? I think this explains the delay! It also means the 2E minis (including the Farrows) will probably be different from the 1E ones.

I heard something about a "surprise" to go along with the new 2E LTs. I honestly haven't given much thought to what that means, though it might be a reference to the re-issue of the Farrow minis in general (technically they've only announced LT minis for the 3 new LTs; Belthir, Splig and Zacareth.)

As far as new Farrow minis in different poses, well, anything is possible I suppose. The do generally seem to make minis in the same pose as the artwork, though (barring a few unusual poses such as Red Scorpion's) and the artwork for the Farrows is the same as the 1E LTs in Road to Legend.

Another possibility is the issuance of pre-painted LTs. They seem to be doing a lot of that lately for games like Arkham Horror. Although if they are pre-paints they'd likely be plastic (I've never heard of pre-painted metal minis anywhere in the industry), and that would mean new molds all around since I'm given to understand that you can't use the same mold for metal and plastic.

I suppose time will tell what this surprise is.

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i just want to put out there that I have just started playing Descent and it is awesome. I would also like the opportunity to purchase the miniatures from the 1st edition and the CK as well to have a larger stock of creatures to use. If I am willing to spend hours on ebay trying to find people selling them, and spend up too a few hundred bucks on the minatures, FFG might as well release the miniatures.

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I'm in complete agreement with the general vibe of this thread: the lieutenants need minis. The monsters are great, the heroes are great, so it just makes these brutes of LT's seem entirely inferior. I'd be much more excited using them if they had the same presence as the rest of the components.

In regards to reissueing models for the CK, I'd be down with that. I've just gotten into Descent, so I jumped right into 2E, but having all those 1E monsters at my disposal (I love being Overlord) would be a hoot! Would definitely be okay with throwing money into that, especially if it became an official FFG release, and not just be trying to hunt them down on ebay (like I said someone mentioned a post or two up).

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KK, so I have done a ton of messing around online to find the best solution to my problem. It seems that the World of Warcraft: The Boardgame can make a pretty good proxy for most of the monster cards in the conversion kit. A guy goes through them pretty well in this link.

http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/15070/descent-proxying

Anyway, the WoW game IS out of print, but not as long as edtion 1 of descent, so getting a copy should not be impossible. I probably dropped about 100 bucks on mine, but the actually WoW boardgame probably cost 80-90 bucks anyway, so all things considered, its not too bad.

For the record, I will probably be using the kobolds from the reaper miniature bones series, as I dont think the kobolds from the WoW game will work.

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I think the argument of "It is too expensive to produce minis" is bullcrap.

Kickstarter exists; FFG could make it into a kickstarter and put the cost out there and basically reduce their risk to near zero. If they raise enough interest/money, then the minis are available for everyone to know and love. Otherwise, we now at least understand why they aren't available.

1st edition minis plus lieutenants kickstarter. I bet it would double or even triple its original goal.

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3d printing of something like a miniture is totally possible and affordable and you can even have them printed in full color porcelan. if they got thier ducks in a row they could offer these and 1st eddition minis on a "print on demand" system and it would only be some design time involded.

so much cool tech out there today it trips me out how some companies are still doing minis in "bulk run" products.