We (in our game) recently determined that Initiate and Declare are one and the same thing - this changed the way we played when dealing with cards such as Across the Summer Sea (If you have more than 1 opponent, challenges cannot be initiated by you or against you)

Previously we were playing Initiate as being the initial challenge but if that challenge was redirected, we then thought the challeger would then be "declaring" a challenge against the redirected oponent

There are some other terms we have run into which cause similar confusion

We were looking at some Bolton characters and wondering about Give Control / Gain Control / Take Control … we decided they were all one and the same thing … but its a bit of guesswork whether they are or not

i.e.

Reek - give the defending player control of Reek …

Terror in the Dungeons - After a player takes control of a House Bolton character …

So if I fulfill Reeks condition and "give control" of Reek to my opponent, can I then play Terror as my oponent has now "taken control"

A dictionary of AGOT terms would be helpful

Initiating a challenge and declaring a challenge are the same thing. You cannot use redirects to "get around" limits on who the attacker may go after, no matter what word is used, unless the redirect effect specifically says so.

I'm not sure how "gains," "gives," and "takes" could have different meanings when paired with "control." They're just verb tenses associated with the type of effect and its timing. But in A "gives" control to B, B "takes" control from A. It's the same thing, just a different perspective.

Thanks Ktom

I think there is an inclination to read to much into different words when no difference in intended

In this instance my opponent definately Gains control but could argue with me that they did not Take control - giving an taking in normal use can have different connotations …

If Terror said "gains" control there would be no confusion, as the card uses a less general term "takes", we start thinking that there is a subtle difference between gives / take and go down the route of misunderstanding

HastAttack said:

It comes down to relaxed templating on FFG's part, really. I think they try to go for language that is as natural as possible, so "hair splitting" is bound to come up once in awhile. The "give," "gains," and "takes" control situation in a good example of that. They go for something that reads smoothly, and the emphasis is really on the control change, but the inclination - knowing how technically minded these things can be - to read the words THAT literally is bound to come up.