the 8 spider said:

Mary Sues are characters that are unrealistic, unsympathetic, and obviously vehicles for wish-fulfillment fantasies by their creators. They tend to be characters which are better then any other character at most all things of importance to the story and have very few flaws, though the ones they do have only seems to make them even better and more awesome or the fact that they always overcome them just shows how great they really are... again and again and again and again. A more complete description of the term can be found HERE

Sorry for the off topic post but with no PM's, i had to post here. Wish I had something useful to add to the Eldar discussion but my knowledge of them is incredibly limited. I'm just soaking up what i can from those more knowledgeable then I, though this is getting interesting (and they never really interested me much before either)!

I am now really curious about the waystones/spirit stones. Are they wraithbone? I tend to believe they are not, and are created as detailed earlier, on the Crone Worlds and are thus hard to get. I also think that even the Eldar Corsairs have spirit stones, just the Harlequins and Dark Eldar do not. Dont the Eldar Corsairs come from Craftworlds, return there at some point, recruit? Or do they get their new numbers from being self sustaining communities on their ships in space?

Sorry but where does it say that the Spirit Stones can only be found on the Crone Worlds? I've seen it mentioned, but I'm sure it's old material.

The newer fluff suggests something different: that the Spirit Stones have existed as long as the Eldar remember, and that they grow into larger forms suitable for use in vehicles and other systems when placed in the Infinity Circuit. Surely if something there was something as important as their only source being Crone Worlds, it would get mentioned a lot, for example in the newest codex.

I'm not saying that what you're saying is non-canon, because there is no such thing as canon in GW's fluff, but this doesn't fit very well into the current version of the 40k verse. There have to be at least billions of Eldar at any given time, and the spirit stones aren't double use. Besides, Craftworlds such as Kaelor don't use Webway a lot and don't send out Rangers: how do they get spirit stones? Same with the Exodites, who tend not to leave their worlds and shun outsiders, so it's pretty hard for them to rely on Rangers to bring them the stones. At the time of the Eye of Terror campaign it was mentioned many times that very, very few Eldar go to the Crone Worlds and even fewer return sane, especially the Rangers who don't have the path to protect them. That made Maugan Ra's feat of establishing Eldar strongholds in EoT on Eidolon and Belial IV even more impressive.

Idaan said:

As far as I am aware it was in a copy of White Dwarf (127?); that issue was a major "upgrade" of the Eldar race from the mercenary pirates of the original RT to the doomed remnants of a galactic empire that we know today. It also introduced new troop types (the Aspect Warriors, Guardians. Warlocks, Farseers etc) and loads of background fluff.

I do not ever remember the stones being said to be found anywhere else apart from the Crone Worlds; although they do seem to use the stones as "receptacles for the soul" when they need to be placed in Warithguard, vehicles etc.

DW

Well, that's why I'm asking: I checked earlier it isn't mentioned neither in WD127 nor in subsequent material. I definately recall that fact, though it might come back from the era when the Avatar was just an animated suit housing a spirit stones, Wraithlords had pilots inside their heads and all that pre 2e weirdness.

Harlequins do have spirit stones, it is just one of them, the solitaire who does not, because he plays "she who thirsts" aka Slaanesh in the troupe. His soul is therefore lost.

From what I can piece together from codex 2nd onwards, the birth of Slaanesh came about from indulging in EVERYTHING to the heighest levels, indulging in debauchery etc. Sex itself is no more creating of Slaanesh than self defence would create Khorne.

The other thing that is worth remembering is that probably 99% of all the Eldar race died in the birth of Slaanesh. That means even if the Eldar create huge numbers, they are still a tiny fraction of their previous number. Only the craftwords and exodites far enough away survived.

The creation of the eldar path is supposed to stop the samething happening again, like Slaanesh, by allowing an individual eldar to devote his whole being towards being perfect in one thing. Just one. Once complete they move onto another path, unless they get lost and end up as a Farseer [i think this is current canon, that a farseer is an Eldar lost on the seers path] or Exarch etc.

I like eldar, they were my first army fourteen years ago, so I don't suffer this "mary sue rage" that seems to occupy others. Strange really when you consider spacemarines are far more mary sue than eldar.

If soul stones cannot be made and are one use only, then there would have to be whole armies of eldar invading the Eye in order to retrieve them. There just wouldn't be enough otherwise (given that the background pretty much says only outcasts travel there and return with them).

My personal opinion is that they are either reusable (which makes sense to me, because the soul within is transferred to the infinity circuit leaving the stone empty.

Or they can make them, but not very easily or it takes a long time.

As for Harlequiins they do not infact use spiritstones, they undergo the 'Ritual' that somehow protects them from Slannesh. It's a big part of their background that none wear spiritstones. The ritual is inferred to bind their soul to Cegorach so that it is he and not Slannesh that eats them, slowly making him stronger. The Solitaire's soul is forfeit to Slannesh when they become a Solitaire, unless Cegorach can trick Slannesh out of it, something that is supposed to happen very rarely.

Hellebore

Hellebore,

The armour of an Exarch is studded with the stones who wore it before them, and the stones provide the memories of the previous wearers, as well as skills. Much the same with Phoenix Lords too. This means that at least in these cases, the stones were not reused.

However a soul can be transfered to the infinity matrix and they advise the living eldar. These spirits can be downloaded back into stones to power the wraithguard and wraithlords. Think futuristic USB sticks! However it does not state anywhere to confirm or deny, that they are the same stones they were on the eldars body in life.

I am pretty sure that the stones are wraithbone, although I am unable to prove that with actual text [seeing as I have all my eldar books packed away at the moment]

If the only source was crone worlds, then this would not really make sense, as they would have an extremely limited supply. This would make having multiple on a Exarch a rather grand gesture.

I tihnk the correct answer probably is GW didn't think it through as much as we are doing...