Alright, one of my players and I are having a disagreement. He claims that because it is "his" game, he should be allowed to make any house rules and override any and all FAQ rulings that he thinks are unfair or stupid (he's already changed pit line of sight to where only creatures adjacent to the pit can see the hero inside it). I, who am the OL, think that I should get final say, but he comes back with the fact that I'm not a DM or God in the game. The thing that sparked this debate? Tattoos. He doesn't like that the Tattoos are being elliminated. He's also been trying to allow him to alter Nanok's ability in RtL.

Yes, he is playing Nanok, I foolishly allowed him to before I realized how hard it is to deal with him during Campaign. He currently has it in his head that Nanok is underpowered because he doesn't get any abilities from armor, and that he either needs more armor (increased bonus from silver and gold power dice) or the ability to wear armor for their abilities and foregoing their armor.

So my real question is, who should get the final say? I'm slightly ahead in CT because of a misread of the rules, and am planning on compensating them with one treasure each, but Nanok in his current state will give me trouble for all levels of campaign...even though the player claims I'll have no trouble killing him with monsters that have piercing.

Should I get final say on house rules? should he? should the FAQ? I just want people to come to an agreement, because he's the type of person who will make up his mind, and run a game into the ground if he doesn't think he's getting his way. He'll just keep pulling the "Well it's my game, and I think that's stupid" card. I NEED HELP!

First, I wish I knew how old you and your friend are...If the answer is over the age of 12, then act your age and play the game rather than being children.

Next, If you really can't come to an agreement, either follow the rules as created by the game manufacturer or roll a die. For example, roll a power die for each issue in question if you'd like...blank = FAQ, Surge= You, Enhancement= your friend.

Finally, the fact that you felt it necessary to come here for some sort of arbitration is a bit ridiculous, but if you still can't come to an agreement, or he won't accept a reasonable ruling such as this...DON'T PLAY WITH HIM. Why bother? The "it's my ball and I'm going home argument" is stupid and no one should be willing to put up with it...come to an agreement, or don't play together.

As a side note, if you are 12 or under...grow up anyways.

In practical terms, I assume no one is forcing anyone else to play the game, so ultimately you have to agree on a game to play (including all its rules) or not play together. Nothing in the game gives any player the right to change the rules as part of the game, so determining the rules is purely an out-of-game exercise.

You could consider asking the forum for advice about specific house rules, how they'd affect the game, and whether people think they're good ideas. But nothing we can say is going to give either of you authority over the other.

I mostly dissagree with jjstev3 and because I have one of those friends, but it only happens in DnD...but DnD allows that kind of stuff. (okay so his not an idiot to use the its my game, cause I payed for it...but I needed the help of a forum of DnD veterans to convince him).

That's why I encourage you to come to the forum to solve your problems, because when there is an issue to solve you debate it, the reason for ...yep...forums.

Okay so first of all, Nanok is by no means underpowerd, his one of the most idiotic ones actually...IMO...(By idiotic of course I imply unplesent for OLs ), oh and just do as Antistone says...he gives pretty good advice...find a game you can agree on, if not don't game at all. I have friends when I play with them, they teach me the game...and after I read the rules myself...I find stuff was done wrong and some was house ruled...I don't play with them any more...unless its on my terms...and my terms are the rules in the book.

"Who's right?"

Me.

Serioulsy though, like other posters have said, neither the OL or the owner of the game has the right to change any of the rules really without discussion and agreement. If you cant agree, take a vote on it with the other players or roll a dice. Write down the result so that you remember it in future.

I've read that Nanok is overpowered.

First, on Namok. He can have 5 armour without equipment. He can still equip other items (like the ring of protection from the basic shop) that increase this. This also means that any cool suits of armour that are drawn as treasure can go to the other heroes, meaning that they're ALL going to be heavily armoured. Finally, your friend CHOSE to play the character, so he shouldn't complain that he's not liking how he's turning out.

In general terms, though, I'd remind your friend that while yes, he bought the game, he's not the only one PLAYING it, and if he unilaterally changes the rules, the other players are going to cease playing the game because they won't enjoy playing with him. If he doesn't like a rule, he should discuss it with everyone, and if he wants a house rule that doesn't make sense to everyone, or that people just don't like, the rulebook and FAQs should stand. It's like you're halfway through a game of monopoly and the person who has Boardwalk and Park Place decides "Oh, I think houses are too expensive. Let's have half price houses this game... And since I bought the game, it's my decision"

Ultimately, your friend needs to remember that other people are playing the game too, and they're entitled to have fun just as much as he is.

Fenria said:

First off, Decesnt is a game with up to a FIVE PLAYERS. All players are equal and should all get a say in any "house rules" you choose to implement. The OL or the owner of the game should have no more influence on how the game is played than anyone else.... this is NOT a role playing game like DnD. I'm inclined to agree that the "it's my game, at my house, so my rules" is completely childish and would drive me to purchase the game myself and find other players.

If he's playing Nanok, all he has to do to increase his defenses is to ugrade his trait dice at a Secret Training Area.

I think that giving them each a treasure is completely overcompensating them but I'd really need to know what "mistake" you made with the misread of the rules.

Bottom line- Play by the rules in the rule book in the FAQ. Otherwise, you're not actually playing Descent. NEITHER of you are right

I say let him make his rulings, but insist they are spelled out at the start of the campaign, and then use his rulings to crush him. For instance, no LoS into pits is a very good thing for the OL. You can now spawn montsers in any pit that a hero is not adjacent to.

Another way to keep house rules / rules interpretations balanced is to plan to take turns being the hero / OL in multiple games of RtL. That way you know that any rule that is killing you now will be great the next game.

I honestly don't think Nanok is THAT powerful. I mean, as your friend pointed out, since he cannot wear armor, he might be missing on some extra, special abilities (though there aren't many). He starts with 4 armor and can potentially increase it to 7. Big whup? That won't happen for a while, and is rather expensive. I just started a campaign with Brother Glyr, and he has 7 armor *right now* without any upgrades (we drew Plate Mail in our first dungeon, +3 armor, and he has the Ring of Protection, so a total of +7 armor).

But to the point, your friend *chose* to play Nanok, he *should* stick with how Nanok is written. If however he absolutely wants to wear armor, I would do this: Go ahead. Nanok's base armor is ZERO. So yay, you can wear +3 plate mail, and have your base speed reduced to 3. Do you really want to do this, when without it your natural armor is 4 and speed of 4?

That's how I would rule Nanok if we really wanted to put on armor...

-shnar

Fenria said:

I echo the things already said by most of the others. In addition/correction:

1. Nanok can actually have 7 armor without doing anything but upgrading his melee dice, which...happen to also increase his damage. Saying he is underpowered is ridiculous. Add a ring and enduring and he's up to 9 armor, which only diamond level master deep elves (and how often do you really see them, anyway? I mean 2 monster treachery?) or perhaps an aimed troll attack can fully pierce (or Kratz the plague, but he's a lt.). That being said, if Nanok wants to wear armor then his base should be two and he should get no bonus from his melee trait.

2. And this affects Nanok also...the only tattoo removed via the faq was bear tattoo, meaning no grapple. However, you still have OX tattoo, which is basically the unstoppable ability and tiger tattoo which not only adds speed and fatigue but makes an already tough to damage Nanok immune to pits. That being said, we play with Nanok in my campaign and I still kill him if he's all the heroes will give me. An aimed troll attack or a raging master beastman can still do some serious damage. And there's always trapmaster and dark charm on that born to the bow pierce 5 archer.

We tend to play that a discussion is had and we agree as reasonable adults to something all can feel is fair. Sometimes there is compromise, sometimes the person who suggests something which would be to their advantage allows the other party to decide. However, once we agree on something, that rule will be in place for future games/campaigns when roles will be reversed.

For example, we decided to let the ol buy treachery with his starting 15 in this campaign. Next campaign, I will be a hero and my buddy will buy treachery to start the game. We're both cool with it because we both get a chance to take advantage of this house rule. But the key is we AGREED to it.

Anyone who says it's this way because it's his game isn't worth playing with, because he's taking all the fun and challenge out of the game so he can (or so he thinks) win. Winning the game loses it satisfaction if there're a bunch of rules in place that make the game one-sided.

Nanok is one of the best heroes in RtL. I'd say he's in the top 5 or top 3. Starting with 4 armor and getting up to 7, all without actually having to get any items? The fact he doesn't have to wear armor is a *bonus*. Other heroes can use any good armor you find. The party as a whole gets stronger.

Sure, as someone pointed out Brother Glyr with Plate Mail and Ring of Protection will have 7 armor very early. But Nanok would have 5 armor with the Ring, and his stats are far superior to Brother Glry. 16 wounds, 4 fatigue, 4 speed is very, very good. Throw on 4 base armor that increases to 7 when you buy damage improvements, and you have a top tier hero. To think Nanok needs some sort of boost is ridiculous.

Oboewan said:

Just an annotation:That is right, but there are four heroes and only one OL. So any argumtent might go in a "pro-hero"-direction, making the game less fun for the OL.

Luckiely (sp?) in my group there is only one hero-player i have to argue with. And the forums are a big help also!

Just try and find a solution, all players can work with for the moment, is all the advise i can give.

In my group, I (as the overlord) just talk 4 times as much and 4 times as loudly to compensate for the fact that they are 4 players vs little old me.