Dear FFG,

The popularity of this topic may give you the impression that a lot of people care about this issue. Well, I just wanted to let you know that I for one don't give a #%$& where you produce your miniatures and under what conditions. Keep the quality products coming at an affordable cost. I don't care about the rest.

Thank you!

th0rn said:

You really should have directed this at FFG through their contact link;

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_atencion.asp

Select Public Relations from the pulldown bar and submit your concerns in a well thought-out, concise letter. If you get a response, do share it with the rest of us, and we can take the discussion from there.

Posting anything on these boards that is ultimately meant to be read and responded to by FFG is not going to get results. They are very open about not wanting to respond directly to comments made on these boards, so you have a better chance of the Star Wars LCG development team posting the original Co-Op rules than you do getting an official response here.

When you put a controversial subject like this up for discussion with the forum users (which is what the purpose of these boards are), then you are going to invite a lot of different views to the table. A lot of them are going to be polarizing for people and leads to some pretty heated discussion on politics and global economics.

Now, I can imagine you were hoping one of us had the answers for you regarding the production conditions of the models, and that's certainly worth looking into, but FFG is really your best point of contact. If you're being stonewalled on the subject, and have a response from them basically telling you to mind your business, or some other glib dismissal, then we would all certainly benefit from knowing that was their response to a legitimate concern from their customer.

I've always had great experiences with FFG's Customer Relations people, so I would expect you wouldn't get anything negative back. This is the company that includes hand-written notes in my parts replacements thanking me for my continued support, so a negative response doesn't seem in their character. You may not get a reply at all. If that's the case, you need to start an Andy Dufresne letter writing campaign. If your purchasing decisions of any FFG products do in fact hinge on this knowledge, this is really the only logical option to pursue.

All the best in your efforts to Shawshank this one over the finish line.

As cleardave just stated you are asking a company that does not post on thier own forums to comment on the work conditions of thier foreign labor pool, on the forums.

That's a silly request.

I appreciate the fact that some people care and some people don't. I am on the side that would like to at least know. I think this thread raises a good question and that FFG should answer it. It may affect some people's decisions and not others, but it is a fair question that requires an answer nonetheless. If you don't care, just ignore this thread and the issue. If you do care, please consider contating FFG about it directly (I just sent asked them useing the contact link at the bottom of the page… curious what their response will be). Both sides should be thankful they have the right/freedom to do what they want and not try to take away that right/freedom from those they disagree with.

I sure hope the blisters on thier little fingers doesn't mar the paint job on my new interceptors.

cleardave said:

Of course he should have.

But, as we know, when it comes to people complaining about these kinds of issues, at least 50% of it has to be a public, "Look at me! I'm a good person! Look what I'm doing! Look how much I CARE!" kind of routine.

If there wasn't the public forum to do it, I bet this bloke wouldn't have even bothered.

It's the curse of social media, basically. People want to be recognised, and noticed by the world.

Is this the thread where the people who complain about "game specific dice packs, 3 core rule books for one system, price gouging betas" decide they want FFG to move their factories stateside and pay their workers above minimum wage, and offer dental and medical……and cut down on the MSRP while still maintaining excellent production values???

Art Vandelay said:

No, different sets of complaining. This is the one where someone wanted to know what was up with the working conditions in China and asked a general audience rather than FFG directly, and it turned into a fiery debate on supporting allegedly horrible working conditions through passivity.

I think you wanted the thread where they ask why they "have to" buy 2 Core Sets to play the game properly. You'll have more luck finding them on the LCG boards, actually. I wish you the best of luck in your search, friend.

This is question might be a good one but as others have stated this is not the right way to ask it.

From a professional stance any answer they give on a forum without autherization from the higher ups would be BAD! And questions like these are politically sensitive issues and no matter the truth just an anawer on the forum would be wrong. If it were the right time they would release a formal response in a company announcement, but they would have to be able to prove it and with the closed nuature of China that maybe very hard for them to do.

I was glad this morning to receive a response from Mark Pollard, the Marketing Content Manager for FFG. With his permission, I'm reporting it in its entirety.

"Dear [Cilionelle],

My name is Mark Pollard, and I’m the Marketing Content Manager at Fantasy Flight Games. I’m writing to you in response to your question about FFG’s manufacturing processes, which I received via our online customer service form.

First, thanks so much for your kind praise of FFG’s products. Like you, we’re all excited about the success of X-Wing, Edge of the Empire, and Android: Netrunner, and I’m happy to hear that you’re such a fan!

Regarding your concern about working conditions at our manufacturing facilities in China, I’d like you to know that we take the issue of fair and humane labor practices quite seriously. In fact, just three weeks ago, our Production Manager returned from a trip to China. One of his many tasks while there was to tour and inspect the facilities of our manufacturing partners, and he found the working conditions to be more than fair.

More specifically, before we agree to do business with a manufacturer, we require that they meet certain ethical standards. Of course, they must comply with all local safety and environmental laws, but our standards go even further. Our manufacturing partners must meet the standards of the International Council of Toy Industries (ICTI).

The worldwide gold standard for fair labor practices in the game and toy industry, the ICTI is an independent, third-party organization that promotes fair and safe workplace conditions in the factories it oversees. They accomplish this through a campaign of education, consistent monitoring, and regular inspections. For more on the ICTI and its role in manufacturing, I encourage you to visit their website at www.icti-care.org.

In closing, I’d like to again thank you for your question. Rest assured that we do everything reasonably possible to make sure that we, along with all of our manufacturers and sublicensees, provide employees with safe, fair, and humane working conditions. If that weren’t the case, I wouldn’t work here.

regards,

Mark Pollard
Marketing Content Manager, [email protected]"

Personally, I know the world is full of bad things. Its full of bad people, bad situations, and bad environments for children. This is not exclusive to one country. I know conditions in most production plants in China are sub-human. Unfortuneatly, this is life.

I am not goint to justify purchasing things made in China with good deeds. But this is the world we live in. I am just thankful I live in a country where I can do good things for the global community.

I greatly enjoy this game, and I will continue to do so. I greatly enjoy helping people less fortunate and doing good deeds. I understand that by playing this game, or purchasing things from countires with deplorable working conditions I become a hypocrite. This is life.

So wait your telling me writing FFG worked? As opposed to posting on forums they don't comment on? Well who would have thunk.

ScottieATF said:

You kill me, dude. I need to buy you a beer.

Now I can finally sleep sound at night.

Well, I am glad Cilionelle took the time to write to FFG and to post the reply here. Thank you.

Before reading this thread, I hadn't considered the question but having done so, it made me feel uncomfortable thinking my money could be causing misery elsewhere. Especially somehow because it was money spent on a game.

I'm also glad the question was raised on a public forum because it pushed me to consider the effects of my spending where otherwise I might not have done. It's good to have your conscience pricked now and again, I reckon.

And I'm glad FFG have turned out to have high ethical standards.

So, all good as far as I'm concerned.

One side note, though: I find it hard to understand why someone who doesn't care about working conditions would feel the need to spend their time visiting a thread specifically about working conditions so they can tell everyone else why they shouldn't care either. And with such anger*. But I guess that's the internet for you.

Cheers

vs

_{*That way, the dark side lies}

Do the break rooms have the full line of X-wing products or do they only have Y-wings?

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who works for a multinational company.

FFG's response is similar to what my company's response would be when asked working conditions overseas. And this response is probably honest inasfar as the people writing it are aware. However, there is only so much that they, or we, can really know until something horrible gets on the news. Was Steve Jobs aware that factory workers in China were hurling themselves from rooftops because hard pavement seemed preferable to making ipods? I hope not. Short of constant surveillance, the people who keep up with these things stateside have to take the word of the plant managers and the reports of those performing the audits. Which is not to say that there are insidious dealings and coverups within the factories FFG uses overseas. People can see or ignore exploitation in many, if not most products.

So tell me, which is better: To live in Third World conditions and have a less than ideal job making little money or living in Third World conditions with no income at all? Don't enforce your enlightened ideals on others. Some here may wish to close such shops and then rejoice about the good feeling they got doing so; meanwhile across the globe there is a pissed off and starving someone trying to figure how he will feed himself and his family because some pompous goof caused his job to close. Put yourself in their shoes, they do not talke those jobs because they are the best around, they take them because they are the only jobs around. Your hearts may be in the right place but lots of people have caused misery to others through their "good deeds".

The US and Europe once resembled these places, they too will mature and grow with prosperity.

I'm pretty sure those Chinese workers are sure glad they are not Bangladeshi textile workers!

th0rn said:

Since Cillonelle was able to get an official response and posted it here, I was wondering if you have now bought some of X-Wing? It really is a fun miniature to play, so hopefully you have / had the opportunity to purchase some mini(s).

DoubleNot7 said:

How did Europe and America get there? How did they get the impetus to change? It wasn't that the African American slaves rose up and said 'no more!' It wasn't that the children of the Industrial Revolution suddenly had a change of heart about their working conditions. They had no voice in the situation. It was because someone outside the situation said something out loud or stood up for what is right.

And the options aren't just job and crap conditions or no job. There's job and better conditions. Or Westerners paying more to help ensure better working conditions. So don't play that either/or card. It's a strawman.

Are you guys ever, you know, going to actually play X-Wing… or just keep churning out guff in this thread?

I mean, it's glaringly obvious (and also a little strange) that you want people you will never actually meet to think you're a good person by doing all of this. No? Then why not just write communicate with FFG privately? Why the need to post their reply? ("Look at me! I got a reply! I was a really good person for asking, right?!?")

If you want to know answers to things, that's fine. But turning into a public spectacle is getting old.

Morrissey said:

Morissey, you're under no obligation to read this thread, and certainly not under any obligation to post in it, if the information is not of interest or annoys you, or if you believe it to be for self-gratification purposes. the old adage holds true: don't feed the trolls. if you think that's what's happening, feel free to starve this particular troll. I won't be offended..

but to clear it up, there were a couple of people who were concerned. I've posted the response I received for their benefit and for the benefit of others who might in the future be interested, not because my self-worth depends on it, as you've so kindly suggested. I also made a point of posting the information here so it would be more widely disseminated.

I'll bet even money that the concerned parties reading this thread didn't even check to see what the International Council of Toy Industries' standards were. Probably just saw the response from FFG and thought, "Oh, well, that's good then, right?"

Anyways, my perspective as an economist (well, PhD candidate, anyways) is that the process of development is a complicated one, and that you or everyone choosing not to buy cheap goods from China is not going to improve their standard of living, either in the short- or long-run. Now, it's encouraging that people are concerned, and that FFG is at least doing some small things to ensure fair working conditions. We economists are a cold, unfeeling lot, talking about "the process of development" when there may be a chance of helping individuals have better working conditions (which it sounds like FFG are actually making an attempt towards), but that is the fact of the matter. There will perhaps come a day when the standard of living for the average chinese citizen rivals our own. Unfortunately, improved conditions in China may come at the cost of our own standard of living. If you've heard that this may be the "Chinese century" just as the 1800s belonged to the British and the 1900s belonged to us, then there you go.

sverigesson said:

I was wondering when common sense was going to show up? It only took 70 some odd posts. I also have an econ background (although not at your level of education) and am glad you said the above. Hopefully the high school "pissing" debate can end and people can start talking about waive 3, which will be announced now in less then a week.

For those of you who are truely concerned about working conditions in China, might I suggest you find out what the actual working conditions of China are before we start making comments about slavery and working conditions of children. If you make general and broad comments without any fact or substance behind said comments you are opening yourself to some of the personal attacks that are on this thread, it's internet nature.

Wave 3 is going to be awesome

Cilionelle said:

Someone outside the US stepped in and made changes in our industrial period? That's good, please do tell just whom that was! Outside forces will not change the course of another countires population by will alone. That is a complete falicy. Westerners paying more will not a darn thing for Chinese workers. If we were going to pay more, then we could just build the products in our own countiry and save the international shipping. You have a strange interpretation of economic development. China is a major player in the market today because they can produce goods cheaply, take that away and you take away their competiveness (which would be fine with me - I generally dislike most Chinese made products - Xwing is certainly the exception!).

ThadiusCole said:

Indeed, let's home those Chinese task masters are whipping the uner age slave labor into a work frenzy! (pure jest, don't get bent out of shape ya'll!)