Summer Encampment

Any Phase: If it is Summer, kneel Summer Encampment to return a character you control to its owner's hand.

My question surrounding this card is, can I use this card to return a character in the Moribund state to my hand. I assume that's its purpose unless it's specifically designed to use with red warlocks. And if I can, what about when an effect like Marched to the Wall says (cannot be saved), am I able to also do it in that circumstance, as it doesn't specifically say save character like with Unburnt which says save character then return it to hand.

While I have you here, Captain Groleo claims a power for your house when an opponent plays or reveals an attachment, does discarding it from their hand during an intrigue challenge count as it being revealed.

Appreciate the help, thanks.

And just some more things I remembered I wanted clarification on.

If I'm first player, then I get the first action in the Challenges Phase, if I have a character with an (opponents) attachment on it that has an action to remove an icon on the attached character, am I correct to assume I can declare this character as an attacker in the corresponding challenge before the opponent has an opportunity to remove the icon, and then once the character is knelt as an attacker them removing the icon does not stop the character from participating in the challenge as having an icon is only a requirement for declaring the attacker not for counting strength in the challenge.

And… I feel like I've heard the answer to this before but I'd like to read it to gain full comprehension.

If Meera Reid comes out of the shadows and chooses to blank the Lanister Iron Throne, can the Iron Throne be knelt to cancel the effect of the meera reid and return kneel her. I think No, and I think something along the lines of because Meera isn't in play when her effect triggers but if someone could explain this scenario in more detail I think it'd give me better comprehension.

And another question I'm pretty sure I know the answer too, If I do something radical like play fortified position to blank say Balerion, he no longer has the keyword No Attachments, then I can attach things to him…. but then the next round happens, a new plot is revealed, Balerion regains the keyword, and the no attachment check kicks in and he'd lose the attachment. Just a simple yes or no here will do, Attachments requirements like Maester only for example are constantly checked and when the card it's attached to no longer meets the requirements the attachment can't legally stay attached and is discarded….. right?

And finally…. the Plot fight…. First turn plots, pre-plot Player A ambushes in a character then in plot phase reveals Rule by Decree, Player B reveals City of Lies…. If Player B wins initiative, he puts 2 cards in the shadows, then the effect of Rule by Decree resolves, Player A has 6 cards in hand and Player B has 5, does Rule by Decree target Player B because at the time it was revealed he had more cards, or does it effect Player A because he now has more cards.

Further more on Rule by Decree, lets say it's Rule by Decree vs Time for Ravens, Rule by Decree wins initiative chooses Ravens to effect to go first, Ravens player now has 8 cards when Rule by Decree goes and has to discard 4 cards?

Re: Summer encampment. Once a character is moribund, it cannot change state (or where it is headed) except by a card effect that specifically mentions those states. An example is "Retreat", while an example of another situation that doesn't work would be using Meera Reed to place herself into shadows after a Valar. Summer encampment is essentially trying to do the latter, and not the former.

All of those situations, though, are different from a "Save", the kind prevented by Marched to the Wall. An effect initiates (step 1), you have an opportunity to save/cancel (step 2), it resolves (step 3) and your characters are now moribund unless they were saved in step 2. Think of a save as dodging a bullet and not CPR and it may help you understand the distinction.

Re: Groleo : No, unfortunately not. "Reveals an attachment" refers only to cards that use the word Reveal (eg, Spending the Winter Stores, or The VIper's Bannermen), and not other effects that cause your opponent to know what the card was (Eg coming out of shadows, ambushing it into play, being discarded)

Re: Icon removal. While you're correct in saying that icon removal once the character is participating in the challenge isn't very useful (not always useless, if, for instance, you have Hear me Roar or Last River), you're wrong about the timing. The phase begins, and there's a player action window. The first player gets the first chance to act, but htat doesn't mean he can skip the window - he can only pass, giving the next player the opportunity to act (and use said icon removal). Once both players have passed consecutively, you can move on to the next step of that phase, which is the declaration of challenge framework action.

Re: Meera Reed/Iron Throne: When Meera Reed is triggered from out of play, she's a character EFFECT, not ability. Abilities are only on cards in play, so the "Bring her out of shadows" bit can't be cancelled. Once she's out, for some unintuitive reason, the latter half of the text is a character ability (despite being triggered as a character effect), so it can't affect a character immune to character abilities, as illustrated in the FAQ. I think (but won't swear to it) the reason The Iron Throne can't cancel this latter half of the ability is that there's no opportunity to cancel the "then" part of an effectanility: it's all or nothing, with the exception of the ability to save from a "Then" effect that would result in a card becoming moribund.

Re: Attachments: Yup, you're right on every count here.

Re: Plots : Each plot fully resolves before the next one initiates, although there's no opportunity for passives/responses to trigger off them until all plots have resolved. That means that the player who won initiative with City of Lies and chose his plot to resolve first, putting two cards in Shadows (down to 5 cards) won't have to discard a card to Rule By Decree from the player with 6.

Re: Plots part 2: Yup. Win initiative with RBD and choose Ravens to resolve first, bumping him up to 8 cards. Works very well.

Thanks for the clarification, So just to fully understand, Summer Encampment can't be used to return characters to your hand that have already been used to satisfy claim, can't be used to return characters to your hand after a Valar is revealed? So the only use for it would be to return them to your hand before the plot was revealed, and Claim still has to be satisfied by a different character if you return that one to your hand…

And a refugee being discarded from not winning dominance, Would have to use Summer Encampment in the challenges phase to prevent the refugee from being discarded…

Drakka said:

When an effect is initiated, it must resolve completely before the next one can be triggered. Resolving an effect includes passives, Responses, then physically removing all moribund cards from the table.

What this means is that once an effect resolves (like claim, Valar, Marched to the Wall, or the passive on a Refugee), the only things you can possibly do before moribund cards are physically removed from the table would be another passive or a Response.

Summer Encampment is an "Any Phase" effect.

So yes, Istaril is entirely correct that once a card is moribund, you can only make it go "somewhere else" with something that specifically changes moribund states (usually requiring the word "instead"). But even then, such a card had better be a Response, or else the timing is not going to work. Summer Encampment is neither. That means you can never use it as a reaction to undo the damage of something bad that has already happened. You can only use it in anticipation to get a card away from something bad you expect to happen.

Thanks both of you, appreciate the responses, Kinda makes my summer deck less good though….:'(