this is rhymes with meek: http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/uploads/got/med_rhymes-with-meek-arotd.jpg

this is flame kissed: http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/uploads/1281900999/med_gallery_11_80198.jpg

let's say they burn my reek. can I save it with meek or no? I tried that recently and the targ insisted flamekissed is terminal. on one hand, if we read the card absolutely litterally I think he is right. if reek is at 0 str and I play a card that specifically says ''cannot have its str raised or lowered'' it seems it would effectively block him at 0 str until the end of the phase. on the other, if it does work like that I really don't see the point of even printing this card. it's a poor man's risen from the see, AND it costs influence. it might save a stark or two eventually but then why the greyjoy icon?

is it me or are they making it on purpose on ambiguous cards lately? maybe it's the point of having them spoiled so they can fix it before even printing them.

Robby Stark said:

It works exactly like you tried to play it. When there is a constant effect raising or lowering a character's STR, the game constantly checks for it over and over at each action/response/framework window.

If you introduce a save response like Rhymes With Meek, it effectively interrupts the terminal effect from Flame Kissed to save the character, and introduces that magical word cannot when the attachment next tries to lower the character's STR. Without this second part, or a permanent +X STR, this could not even be played to save the character (just like dupes can't save against this sort of terminal effect).

One thing you have to get out of your head is reading these cards too literally. You have to get in the mindset of thinking in game mechanics, instead. Try sitting down and forcing yourself to read the FAQ very thoroughly… I did, and it's helped me make more informed decisions about this kind of thing (even before they add a new section covering the subject). Hope this helps.

Rhymes with Meek also works against Flame-Kissed because it attaches to the saved character, turning off Flame-Kissed's effect, regardless of any STR boost or protection against STR reduction.

Khudzlin said:

True. Forgot about that part.

stormwolf27 said:

I was going off memory, cause I've had this argument soooo many times with people about other terminal effects, like Dragon Skull, etc.

stormwolf27 said:

The confusing part for most people is that "remove from the terminal state" could be the result of applying various continuous effects that became applicable when the save resolved. For example, kneeling Maester Wendamyr to save himself from burn while Stoic Resolve is out (so he "cannot be killed" once he is kneeling). "Rhymes with Meek" falls into that category. When the save resolves, it applies a new "cannot have its STR lowered" continuous effect, which removes the character from the terminal state.

ktom said:

Yes, I'm aware. I stated this in my first response to the OP. The comment you quoted was from Khudzlin reminding me of the "if there are no other attachments…" part of Flame Kissed, which is a secondary benefit of being able to attach things like Rhymes With Meek or Risen From the Sea effectively cancelling Flame Kissed

stormwolf27 said:

Any way of removing a card from the terminal state (along with saving it) is good: the example provided in the FAQ is Core Set Viserys, whose save makes him leave play (thus making the terminal effect inapplicable). But it has to be done in one initiation (constant effects matter, passives and further responses don't).