macd21 said:

Well, virus-bombing a world is pretty serious business. It's not like an inquisitor just pops up and demands an exterminatus. If the Lord Inquisitor is easily contactable, chances are, he will already know about what's happening and perhaps might be involved.

If he isn't contactable, then you'll just have to rely on the Inquisitor you've got.

macd21 said:

If the adepta aren't cooperative, then they are obstructing the inquisitor's holy duty and are heretics in the eyes of the Emperor. Disrespect for authority is literally a heresy punishable by death. Duty is the grease which keeps the wheels of the Imperium turning. If Inquisitors can't rely on someone to act on their command when it is needed, then the roots of heresy grow deep indeed.

Ursca said:

If they Inquisitor can't rely on someone to act on their command when needed, it means that it's business as usual in the Imperium. Someone being less that 100% cooperative or respectful towards and Inquisitor isn't heresy, it's human nature. And while a normal Imperial citizen may be too frightened to piss off an Inquisitor, those in power demand respect themselves. An Inquisitor who pushes people aroudn too much makes enemies - including other Inquisitors who dislike his methods. And an Inquisitor who executes people for not jumping to fufill his every demand just removes those with the ability to help him the most, which is counterproductive.

There are Inquisitors who act like this, who try to arrogantly bully their way through every problem. They just aren't very good ones.

macd21 said:

Somehow Rykehuss The Witchfinder (described in the core rules) come to mind.

(what can I say, its just the impression I've gotten from him)

Thanks for all the feedback!!

So it would seem that an Inquisitor can get away with nearly anything. That doesn't mean they can do anything. In addition to politics (don't know about you - but if my signature could condemn an entire planet, the last thing I'd want is to owe the Officio Assassinorum a favor) there are logistics ("Yes m'Lord, we shall certainly send you the troops you require. It shall be scant weeks before the ships required to transport them arrive at the mustering point and the journey shall only be a few brief months...) to consider as well. So various teams of eclectic "specialists" would make perfect sense.

Of course, certain Inquisitors might take steps to cultivate their own resources. For example, Inquisitor Bob has only held the rosette for a few short decades and doesn't have the political clout with the IG that he desires as of yet. But Bob has a favored acolyte, Timmy. Timmy used to be a lieutenant in the IG and has plenty of combat and command experience. Timmy is also getting on in years and looking forward to some sort of retirement. Now, we all know that nobody quits the Inquisition, but Bob wants to reward Timmy. Timmy is indeed allowed to retire. Bob even throws him a nice and very public retirement dinner. He even cashes in a few favors to help Timmy get the legal charter to found a mercenary company in the Calixis sector so the old soldier can have a comfortable living in his retirement.

Now, if Inquisitor Bob needs a quick, discreet military intervention that's also off the books....

The Authority of the God-Emperor of Mankind

That's it, really. Each one of them, with their rosette and seal, carries that authority. It entitles them to look into any issue, to command any resource and anything of anyone in the Imperium.

Just because they have that authority, however, doesn't mean they always get what they want. There are other Inquisitors, for instance, who make it their business to ensure other Inquisitors aren't up to no good. I don't mean making daemonhosts and cavorting with witches and aliens and mutants, but that they keep an eye on running things. The authority of the Inquisitor Lord is merely nominal, as best I understand it. It isn't an official 'rank', but it is semi-official in that a whole bunch of other Inquisitors say it is official.

Despite the disposition in the fluff, I'd imagine that most Inquisitors are on the side of order, loyalty, not breaking massive rules [like the Lex Imperia] or going against the Emperor and such. That is to say: the good old moderate, devout puritan who has a sensible, rational and well disciplined mind on their shoulders. An exceptionally competent and highly ambitious individual who is passionate about doing the right things for humanity. And they've got a significant number of broadly similar like-minded (and similarly capable) individuals who keep them 'on the straight and narrow'. It's peer review at its finest...

Now, each of the Inquisitors has authority (with some more permitted by common assent to the likes of Inquisitor Lords) of the Emperor, but that doesn't mean they are the Emperor, or that anyone's going to let them do whatever they want. Surey one of their consideration is to work behind the scenes, to not disrupt the Imperium too much. Prevent the bad bits, keep the useful bits.

So whilst they have the authority to do whatever they please, they have the intelligence to only do what they feel they must, not what they can.

The whole 'thrust' of the game Inquisitor is that you're told they are all shining, pure, brilliant indivduals who're the last, best and only hope in the defence of mankind. But Everything you have been told is a lie, so it's back to square one! Or is it?

Thematically, yes, but you can still keep things as they were but remove things like 'all' and replace with 'generally'. It adds variance in huge degrees. Some Inquisitors will stomp around, announcing their presence willy nilly. There'll be resistence. Some will be secretive, there'll be resistence. Some will be highly 'by the book' (Inquisitor Horst is a very commendable example): He has the authority to do almost anything...but doing almost anything is not a surefire way to victory.

In that sense, when we deal with Inquisitors in the fiction, in the games...we're dealing with a great amount of potential for 'Plot Induced Stupidity'. That is: whatever the Inquisitor is doing might be horrendously stupid as one might validly ask "Why are they doing X when they have the authority to simply do Y?"

That is: Why use 300XP acolytes to fight the daemons when there's a whole big force of Grey Knights?

The obvious balance, for 40k, is that perhaps there's more daemons elsewhere and the Gks are already doing that...

But why not Arbites?

<Facepalm>

My point is that there are surely a great many reasons, one may well exhaustively think of all the possible excuses, or one might simply hope to present the 'guise' of reality. So add the qualifier that "As you're being trained and have shown promise you're being given increasingly difficult missions. The Inquisitor is deeply involved in numerous operations and it'd be foolish to think you're the only people he's bothering with. Your Inquisitor has furnished you with access to X, Y, Z of his assets in the local area, including this informant net and these details for those people for this thing...etc"

"But why isn't he off at Cadia trying to stop Abbadon?" ..."Because there's about a billion and a half Inquisitors already there, yet they've left this half of the fairly reasonable subsector largely unguarded and your Inquisitor happened to find certain evidence suggestive of a more pressing problem which had not been attended to...!"

TheConclave. and Robey Jenkins in particular, has currently developed a good analogy for the Ordos too. That is: don't treat them as 'branches' of organisation MI5-on-crack, treat them as 'Private Member's/ Gentlemen's Clubs' which have a wide range of interests, members and facilities, but generally a fairly specific interest, aim and area of concern. It isn't formal, it certainly isn't government, but it's a sort of private and has all sorts of rules, regulations and procedures that members generally agree to follow to a certain extent...there's room to maneuver, and favours/exceptions can be made, but it hardly means that it is utterly lawless or without repercussions either.

Complicated. That's what their authority is. Exceedingly simple, but delightfully complex.

macd21 said:

They couldn`even do that with an Brevet Warmaster

The Ordo Hereticus was specifically created to prevent the events of the age of apostasy from happening again. So yes, the Inquisition could execute a High-Lord if it was required. Not that they've needed to in the last five thousand years.

warpdancer said:

Yes, technically, any Inquisitor has the authority to order the execution of one of the High Lords. Let me make this clear: no one out ranks the Inquisition. They receive their authority directly from the Emperor, not the High Lords. The High Lords have zero authority over them and cannot overturn the order of an Inquisitor.

Again, however, the rules in practice don't always reflect the theory. Say an Inquisitor orders the execution of a High Lord. That isn't something that happens with the snap of your fingers. The High Lord will learn of it before the bullet goes through his brain. And as soon as he hears about it, he'll go to another Inquisitor and ask him to countermand the order. This results in two conflicting Inquisitorial orders, which will probably be enough to keep the High Lords brains inside his skull long enough to figure out what is going on.

But, if the Inquisitors decide that the original order was justified... bangsplat. High Lord grey matter all over the wall.

As for whether or not it's ever happened - probably. But those are the kinds of things that don't go into the history books

I remember that in one of the Ghost Stories an high ranking Inquisitor couldn`t pull this stunt with an brevet warmaster, slaydos successor

in the lexicanum is written that the Inquisition has only small authority over him.

warpdancer said:

From the Thorian sourcebook:

"The basic operational unit of the Inquisition is the Inquisitor. In
an Imperium that groans under the weight of gargantuan
organisations and an impossible bureaucracy, the Inquisition is
unfettered by such considerations and is free to operate where
and how it sees fit. With an open remit to combat threats to
Mankind, the Inquisition operates outside of the other Imperial
organisations, though has absolute authority over them.
In practice, the Inquisition must be more political than its
mandate allows. Though their power derives from the Emperor
himself, and even the High Lords of Terra are not above their
scrutiny, the Inquisition must also rely on the other parts of the
Imperium for resources. The Inquisition has tremendous
amounts of power, and has access to troops, weaponry and
archives beyond most other Imperial organisations, it must still
receive these from the Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Guard, the
Adeptus Mechanicus and others."

"Each and every Inquisitor embodies the whole Inquisition and
wields the power of the entire organisation. The word of an
Inquisitor is absolute and beyond reproach - except by other
Inquisitors."

"To avoid the monolithic, slow processes that are the curse of
other Imperial organisations, the Inquisition is organised on only
the most fundamental level - the single Inquisitor. From their
original conception, the Inquisitor can call upon whatever local
resources were required to deal with the threat, with no need for
recourse to the Adeptus Terra.
This has stood true for ten thousand years, and throughout that
period the Inquisition has needed to maintain its position of
absolute authority. The Inquisitorial seal carried by every
Inquisitor brings with it tremendous responsibility but also the
means by which this responsibility can be met. The presentation
of an Inquisitorial seal to an Imperial Guard Colonel, an Imperial
Navy Admiral, Imperial Commander or Space Marine Chapter
Master cannot be gainsaid."

warpdancer said:

No, they really could. Their authority is exceeded only by that of the Emperor Himself, and while the High Lords of Terra may rule in His name, only an Inquisitor - any Inquisitor - can bring to bear the full force of His will. They could do all that and more... they just don't.

As explained in the Thorian Sourcebook for Inquisitor:

"The basic operational unit of the Inquisition is the Inquisitor. In an Imperium that groans under the weight of gargantuan organisations and an impossible bureaucracy, the Inquisition is unfettered by such considerations and is free to operate where and how it sees fit. With an open remit to combat threats to Mankind, the Inquisition operates outside of the other Imperial organisations, though has absolute authority over them.

"In practice, the Inquisition must be more political than its mandate allows. Though their power derives from the Emperor himself, and even the High Lords of Terra are not above their scrutiny, the Inquisition must also rely on the other parts of the Imperium for resources. The Inquisition has tremendous amounts of power, and has access to troops, weaponry and archives beyond most other Imperial organisations, it must still receive these from the Adeptus Astartes, the Imperial Guard, the Adeptus Mechanicus and others.

"In essence the Inquisition exists not as a force in its own right, but as a guiding hand that allows the Imperium to protect itself, after a fashion. Much of its work is dedicated to observing threats to Mankind and instigating an appropriate response. As well as the many Inquisitors, the Inquisition has millions, probably billions, of other agents and operatives across the Imperium and beyond, watching for signs of mutation, alien aggression, treachery and incompetence.

"Each and every Inquisitor embodies the whole Inquisition and wields the power of the entire organisation. The word of an Inquisitor is absolute and beyond reproach - except by other Inquisitors. Thus it is that as well as protecting the Imperium, the Inquisition is also responsible for its own self-policing. It is a testament to the courage and diligence of the Inquisitors that it has maintained its position for ten thousand years despite wars,
pogroms, internecine conflict and internal heresy. The men and women of the Inquisition are amongst the most vigorously tested, intensively trained and motivated individuals from the whole of Humanity, and they need to be."

Fundamentally, there is nothing an Inquisitor cannot do... but a great many things that he shouldn't. That distinction is one of discretion, of politics and cunning, not of authority.

Edit: ****, someone got there first...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Though their power derives from the Emperor himself, and even the High Lords of Terra are not above their scrutiny,

This said definetly not the high Senate is under the Authority and Judgement of every other Inquisitor

from the Thorian Book

An Inquisitor that suspects a Chapter of deviant behaviour must
tread carefully. Space Marines have been, historically, extended a
lot more latitude than other Imperial forces concerning their
organisation and activities.

The most traditional, hardline Inquisitors have immense
problems dealing with the Adpetus Astartes, simply because they
also operate outside the dogma and bureaucracy of the
Imperium. What may seem heretical and self-serving on one level
can also be viewed as essential to the Space Marines' power. The
ability to act on their own, to fight where necessary and to take
whatever action they deem fit is intrinsic to the Space Marines'
capability to respond quickly and efficiently to emerging threats
or to proactively protect Mankind.
Unorthodoxy is easily confused with disloyalty, and there have
been a few occasions when an over-zealous Inquisitor has
instigated a problem where none existed. The Space Marines are
rightly justified and proud of their loyalty to the Emperor, but
endeavour to remain aloof from the infighting and politics that
plague the Imperium. They answer to none but their Chapter
Masters and the Emperor himself, and to have their loyalty
brought into question is a great offence.

The most traditional, hardline Inquisitors have immense
problems dealing with the Adpetus Astartes, simply because they
also operate outside the dogma and bureaucracy of the
Imperium. What may seem heretical and self-serving on one level
can also be viewed as essential to the Space Marines' power. The
ability to act on their own, to fight where necessary and to take
whatever action they deem fit is intrinsic to the Space Marines'
capability to respond quickly and efficiently to emerging threats
or to proactively protect Mankind.
Unorthodoxy is easily confused with disloyalty, and there have
been a few occasions when an over-zealous Inquisitor has
instigated a problem where none existed. The Space Marines are
rightly justified and proud of their loyalty to the Emperor, but
endeavour to remain aloof from the infighting and politics that
plague the Imperium. They answer to none but their Chapter
Masters and the Emperor himself, and to have their loyalty
brought into question is a great offence.

Such warnings come not only for information, but are inevitably attended with a recommended course of action.
The High Lords will debate this recommendation, usually modifying it in some form or other, and then begin turning the great wheels
of the Imperium to implement their plans.

warpdancer said:

Because Dan Abnett's knowledge of the background is flaky at best, and this is especially evident in his earlier books. Bear in mind that in the same series, he invented entirely by accident the rank of Commissar-Colonel (a rank which otherwise should not exist), and all through the Eisenhorn and Ravenor novels presents a version of the Inquisition that seems, contrary to information presented elsewhere, mired in bureaucracy and struggling to actually do anything of note.

For all intents and purposes, we might as well assume that Dan Abnett is writing in a slightly different 40k universe to everyone else...

warpdancer said:

If none save the Emperor Himself are above the purview of the Inquisition, then how are the Lords of Terra? Granted, Bob the Inquisitor wouldn't have the backing to order the execution of a high Lord and have it carried out, but a Cell of Inquisitors with the Inquisitorial Representative as a member should.

The High Lords have proven in the past to be corruptible and potential dangers just like anyone else. If the Inquisition can do nothing about them and their number, then who will be there to stop the next Vandire from happening?

Edit: and in the time it took my slow ass connection to finally post this, 10 or so replies seem to already cover this... I'm always so late to the party.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.de/wiki/Kriegsherr

warpdancer said:

And that'd be great, if it weren't for the fact that GW's stated stance on canon is "everything is canon, nothing is necessarily true"...

As for Lexicanum... bear in mind that, like all wikis, it's community-edited. That means, amongst other things, that it's not necessarily accurate or complete, and that it's subject to the biases of those editing it.