So this topic has been brought up a lot at my LGS. OMIGOSH the IMPS are overpowered!

Agree or not, spam lists bring a lot of punch the fight, with lots of evasion and little concern for loss of ship.

Let me state a few things before I get into my actual suggestion, which I worked with Brant Seymoure on, a local player/friend.

I HATE reprints/card text changes. And I also don't like Banned lists or anything like that. I feel that to make it where I have to write all over my cards or something is pretty horrible and as such, I don't feel like it would help the game.

At the same time, the goal here is to create a minimally invasive rule change that would bring balance to the Force, while not making a HUGE sway either way.

All the rules for phase 1 were reviewed when considering this, and I don't feel wave 2 brings anything that will hurt the game by making this change.

When I look at Imperial Ships versus Rebel ships, there is one thing in abundance in Rebel lists, and fairly lacking in Imperial lists, particularly the swarm lists which everyone seems to dislike. Shields.

In the spirit of Star Wars, and general shield mechanics everywhere, shields are a fluid thing. Something that 'can' come back with a little work, power distribution changes ect. In my opinion (and Brant's), this is the best place to start.

But what about R2-D2! R2 gets a shield back every time you do the requirement, this is good, you paid for it, and you only get one. You deserve to get one shield back each time. Same for the other droid that repairs(name escapes me at the moment).

Now I also consider that this is a dice rolling game, there should be some chance, maybe it doesn't work, maybe it does.

So here is the suggestion: At the end of the game round, after all shots have been resolved, add a step: Shield Recharge.

For every ship with shields, who currently has less shield tokens than their printed Shields(or modified number via the Shield Upgrade) roll one Evade die. In the case of (Squiggly evade symbol which doesn't have a name) replace one shield token on your ship.

This rule, by changing the meta rule of the game, is a minimally invasive change, which will give a minor, but signifigant change to the game. By doing so, you will boost the effectiveness of all shielded ships, in particular the Tie Advanced, as well as the Y-Wing, ships often sorely hated because of a million other issues. Further, it is a much more beneficial change to the Rebels than it is to the Imperials.

I am open to discussion on this, but I would really like to forward this to the playtesters/publishers for consideration of change.

Disclaimer: I do not own a single Rebel ship, at all. My current ship ownership is: 7 Tie Fighters, 4 Tie Advanced, 4 Tie Interceptor, 2 Firespray-31s, 0- Rebel ships. This is being written from someone who DOES play swarm lists, a lot, with the assistance of Brant, mentioned above, who does happen to own/play Rebel lists.

Initial thoughts. That makes the yt even more powerful than it already is. R2D2 does this at a cost. What is the cost for your suggestion? Only a ship with a droid upgrade can do this at the cost of not performing the ability on that droids card next turn? I'm open to the suggestion, but there should be a detriment to doing so.

hothie said:

im sorry I was under an impression you can only have one R2D2 in your sqaud as you can only have one named character and that appplied to droids unless im mistaken but then that would mean buying a second box set gurr.

I dont think its the sheilds that have a problem is the crit hits seriously reduce your aggility by 1 to zero the bloody falcon only has one agility and no way of improving it really, Im sure in the movies R2D2 actualy flew in the falcon so I am sure he fit in again if you push him to one side. There has to be more agility improvement cards, hans ability should have beenre roll dice or add one to your agility for the round. The falcon should be stress free regardless and have the abiltiy to fly sideways through astroids, if the astroids are the same distance a tie can barrell roll ie 1 movement.

Crit hits should be removed off all shielded craft the second sheids get raised again. simple

hothie said:

All ships with shields get the chance to roll a die and regain a token. No purchase, just a change to the 'shield' rule.

Sure it helps the YT tons, but again it's going to help plenty of others. Personally while I recognise the YT is pretty beast, I really am not terribly concerned by it. Maybe I need to get beat up by it convincingly and I'll change my opinion of it.

That must be why i never post from my phone. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to be a little more clear now that I'm on a computer.

1. This would make the YT even more powerful. 13 hp takes a while to take them down, 15 with Chewbacca. If you add the possibility of endless shields onto that, it will be nearly impossible to take one down in a 75 minute setting,

2. R2D2 does this ability, at a cost to a restriction of movement. Therefore using this ability should have some cost assiociated with it.

My suggested restriction would be: only ships that have a droid upgrade card assigned to them can use this ability. The droid may attempt to replenish the shields, but it loses its own ability for the next game round.

I have since remembered that you want to use this ability on Imperial ships as well, so how about this:

Ship Modification Upgrade card
Cost 4 (I could be talked into 5)
Replenish Shields

Action: Roll 1 defense die. On an evade result, you may replenish 1 shield (up to your shield value)

That would make using this ability into not only an upgrade that you have to consider in squad building, but it also requires an action. i would tend to think if something like this were implemented without a cost requirement that TIE/Ln's and Interceptors would stop being used altogether.

hothie said:

It would lend itself to some Squad Leader action too. While limiting some of the the options for movement, that makes sense even thematically as you reroute power around and take your focus off of the fight. I'm curious if we're missing something else here.

Why not just have a new phase at the beginning of the turn called power management? You can either add one attack die at the cost of reducing your shields by one, recharging your shields at a cost of one attack die (no secondaries), or engine speed for an additional 1 forward at a cost of one attack die? It would add an interesting dynamic to the game (x-wings would be able to go 5 forward at a cost of one attack die but no ship may go faster than 5 forward).

nimdabew said:

I like this, though without a whole set of tokens to really keep track of it, it would be easy to forget which ships had performed what. For a casual game I think it would be a lot of fun to mess around with. And honestly, due to boost, I see no reason to limit the range, it's just that you could only re-distribute ONE. So you're limited to performing only one of the options.

I'm afraid it would be a bit too complicated to add to the game though, with plenty of other stuff going on already. Thematically I like it a lot. Charge your shield to max, frontal arc, and reduce shield power, equalize lasers and fire!

Your suggestion falls apart in the premise, The Rebels really don't need the buff to begin with.

Everybody keeps doing this. Despite what I've seen to be very even contests (the rebels and imps all seem to have a fairly balanced win/loss ratio) I am constantly seeing players get upset that the rebels aren't winning every time. Seriously, if the rebels always win, why in the world would anyone want to play imps?

From buffing the Y-wing, to now buffing shields… come on. Do you guys just want an "I win" button? Or how about a rule that says since reb ships cost more, Rebs automatically get 20 points more per game. You know, to make it "fair". Imps don't even have the Tie Bomber yet, which will be our counter to the B-Wing, which I guarantee you is going to mop the floor with the Tie Bomber.

The game is very much balanced. I lose and win at a fairly even pace. He'll, I play against my daughters, who are 10 and 11, and they almost whoop me.

How about rather than making sweeping game changes, you adjust your own tactics, maybe change up your list? Not every reb list is going to universally beat every imp list.

I'm not trying to come off like an ass here (though I'm sure I am giving that impression) but how about we not make changes from what we have, and you adjust your own game. If you're having a harder time, make some House Rules that will allow you to play how you want.

The Amazing Flight Lizard said:

i agree! Except my daughter is 18 and viscious on the dice!

The Amazing Flight Lizard said:

This.

What produces the perception of imbalance is that it's much easier and more forgiving for new players to pick up a bunch of TIEs and roll them in a swarm. You don't have to be all that good at maneuvering, the consequences of hitting a couple of obstacles or ships is mitigated aross a large (or larger, at least) amount of ships, and you don't have to be particularly efficient in your Actions.

Eventually, once people become better at those things, they beccome good enough to pick apart TIE Swarms by exploiting their shortcomings and the perceived imbalance disappears.

Don't feel bad about it, I went through it too. I think just about every predominantly Rebel player does. I wrote a post about it on my website and it's one of the most viewed posts of all-time, not to mention it was the first article I posted that actually generated some feedback (all positive) from strangers.

Keep playing. Try running a 4 X-Wing list against it if you're the Rebels. It'll take you a few matches, but you'll get there. In a month or two, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Good luck!

I'm totally expecting a card called Double Front that does something like treats your ship as if it had +1 shields of the attacker is in your forward arc and -1 shields if they're behind you. :-D

BrandonCarpenter said:

That'd be super cool as an Action via a Modification card! Great idea!

I don't think there needs to be a change. As I find things quite balanced as is. My thinking is that once the shields drop it may take a considerable amount of time for them to regenerate. Even though are games may run 60+ minutes in actual fight time it may only be a few minutes at most. With that being said there is that moment in the moves when Gold Leader says “Set your shields to double front” as they dive into the trench on the death star. If that could be replicated in the rules easily I would buy into that.

Also, some of the scenarios I run in the League I manage include capital class ships like GR75 transports and Cr 90 Corvettes. Those ship I do give the ability to rebuild shields or redistribute shield power, as a action taken by the ship. Its just seems like their shield generators are much larger and would have that capability.

This would break lower points games imo. Furthermore, i think if something like this were added it would need to take place of an action. But seriously, a yt-1300 with the ability to regen is rediculous.

I dont see an issue with the current game. Spam lists work, but you have to change up youre lists/tactics to comnat they. The yt can really ruin them, and agressive ion cannon spam seems to work too. But thats just my experience.

First off, I have to agree with some of the other posters here, the Rebels aren't broken to begin with, so there is no reason to try to fix them.

Secondly, any base change to shields (from recharging shields to directional shield defense) will give a huge advantage to the Rebels as all their ships have shields. Any type of shield recharge system that can be used across the board for the Rebels could very well lead to a very big imbalance where the rebel ships could simply withdraw from the battle for a round or two and effectively heal back up. This could be done individually or in formation. People already try to do this with R2D2, but he's limited by manuevers and the fact that you can only field 1.

While I agree that the Rebels do have some weaknesses, those weaknesses are hardly any greater than the weaknesses of the Empire.

Cid_MCDP said:

I am very inclined to agree with you here. I consistantly lean towards Rebel squadrons, and am currently 9-3 in FFG Organized Play at my FLGS with a 4 X-Wing build. My losses are a draw with a 7 Imperial TIE squadron (no kills on either side in 60 mins) and a loss to a tough Imperial build that spotlighted the Firespray-31 with a Bounty Hunter Pilot and 4 TIES supporting it. The last loss was against another 4 ship Rebel build that came down to the very last ship per side. I also concur that it takes a lot more skill to play with less ships. You will find yourself thinking more than just one move ahead and will improve as a player. In my opinion, the Imperial squadrons are not overpowered, and the game has a very good balance right now. The Wave 2 ships only help to showcase the balance. Granted, I only play using the asteroids and never on a blank map. With no obstacles in the mix, the Imperial swarm does seem to hold an edge in the games I've played or observed. My bottom line here is: I don't like the "shield recharge" suggestion. If players want to use it as a house rule go ahead, but I hope it stays out of the FFG Organized Play/Tournament Rules.

Here's my squad if anyone wants to have a look.

http://x-wing.voidstate.com/view/2329/rebel-recuits

Edit: '…inclined NOT to agree with you.'

hothie said:

So far Hothie has the most constructive option for shield regen imho.

This thread reminded me of some cool pictures. The Beta for our beloved game had an R5 Astromech recharge shields on X-Wings. Here are those pics if interested.

Another astromech droid upgrade is a better idea than creating an ENTIRE new phase for the game. I have no problem with a ship using its Action to attempt to recharge a shield. In fact, I really like it. But I still stand by my original statements that the Rebels are NOT weak, and the Imperials are NOT overpowered. In my area, the Imperial players outnumber the Rebel players at least 2-1, and games are almost always close and competitive.

I have not had the same experience as you, or just don't feel that the shields need it.

From a 'realistic' perspective, these dogfights are taking place over seconds and would rarely even last a whole minute. Shields do take time to recharge (using my X-Wing vs TIE, SWG, and other SW video game experiences).

It would be cool to have front vs rear shields that you could bolster (i.e. shields full front, leaving your rear exposed).

i agree that if used this rule should be dependent on an astromech droid and the spending of an action for a chance at recharging. this would mean that only x-wings and y-wings could use the ability tho and i like the idea of the tie advanced being able to recharge shields as well. i also agree that the falcon should not be able to recharge as its a tank already. ive often thought that a crit result should take out two shields, i know this is off topic and would likely unbalance the game weakening shields too much altogether but id still like to see a pilot upgrade card that allows crits to take 2 shields.

A 4x X-wing list can take on a 7-8 TIE list pretty easily.

Remember too, the Rebels are supposed to be the underdogs. The Empire has them outmanned and outgunned, and can crank out ships and weapons as fast as the Rebels can blow them up. The Empire relies on superior numbers -- "Oh, you blew up a TIE Fighter? I've got seven more where that came from." -- while the Rebels rely on superior piloting and tactics. Removing a perceived "disadvantage" from the Rebel side would pretty much make the game not Star Wars.