So the stealth card says that when you are hit, you discard this card.

According to the Assault Missile card, "if this attack hits, each other ship at Range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage"

Does this mean, that provided that the ship with the stealth device was not the defender (or target), it does suffer that 1 damage, but the stealth device is still active?

Example:

A TIE Fighter with a stealth device is within range 1 of Slave I. An assault missile sucessfully damages Slave I. According to the rules, the TIE fighter takes 1 damage, but does it lose the Stealth device?

My reasonings says that the stealth device still works due to it not being "hit" , but I would like how the general group plays it out.

Correct.

The splash damage from AM and effects like flying through obstacles deal damage but do not deactivate the Steath Device.

Agree with paradox. For the rules citation: pg 12 of the rulebook is where the term "hit" is defined. It is only ever used in the context of an attack:

"If there is at least one uncanceled [hit] or [critical hit] result remaining, the defender is considered hit (see page 13). If all [hit] and [critical hit] result are canceled, the attack misses and the defender does not suffer any damage."

This is still in need of an FAQ in my honest opinion.

The point not mentioned here, or rather the argument against, is that an attack is generating the effect. You are performing an attack and causing a hit, applying the hit elsewhere.

In the very literal interpretation of the cards as printed, I agree that it should not affect the Stealth Device, however, I equally feel that it needs to be FAQ'd and that it SHOULD be worded so as to remove stealth devices.

Crimson.Owl said:

EDIT - Ninja'd, as usual, by dbmeboy. I need to type faster.

That argument doesn't hold water. The Stealth Device card says "If you are hit by an attack…" (emphasis mine). So unless the ship with Stealth is defending against an attack by another ship and receives at least one uncancelled [hit] or [crit] result, Stealth will not be removed. Period.

The only reason this needs an FAQ is that it seems to be widely misunderstood. The rules and cards as written are very clear, however, and I would be VERY surprised to see errata issued to make it work any differently.

People are reading the stealth card, But its the sssult missle card you need to read if the attack hits all ships within a range one are considered to be hit. that would mean the attack was succesful. Did you lose a sheid or suffer any damage yes then you have been hit. Either that or roll three dice each to see wwho gets the most hits and he or she who wins gets to decide the rule on the day. But to me the rules need clarification untill the do there is no way you can have stealth on a ship thats been hit.

Bazinga said:

No. That is not what the Assault Missiles card says at all. The Assault Missiles card says "If this attack hits, each other ship at Range 1 suffers 1 damage."

As has already been pointed out, hits are defined in the rulebook. Suffering a damage is not the same as being hit by an attack. Assault Missile damage to the ships at Range 1 of the target are not hit by an attack and do not lose the Stealth Device.

This really is not an unclear rule, it is a case of people being unwilling to accept what the rules actually say.

Jim

Emrico said:

Emrico said:

What does the rules say? lets see clearly and lets reveiw them does the rule book mention assualt missles, no does the rule book mention what to do if the card or trait allows one to brake the rules yes is assualt missles a card yes.

Astroids and bombs are damage so yes your right suffering damage from these is not the same as beeing hit in an attack, so you can keep stealth yes we all agree on that and your interpretation is correct. There is a difference between damage sufffered from damage from astroids or mines and that damage you suffer in an attack.

But any damage suffered in an attack removes the stealth, do we agree as the stealth card says if attacked..

Does this mean you have to be directly attaked no it says if hit by an attack. If you have to remove any damage as a reslut from being attacked then this is clased as beiing attacked and thats the argument. Assualt missiles attack multiple ships thats what there designed to do, the card says damage but damage from a hit is still damage from a hit not damage from a astroid or mine, can you not define what the rules say about being hit in an attack and what damage you get, oh wait you dont need to cause its clearly a hit.

If you get attacked by asualt missles then you suffer one damage to every ship in ranage one as a result of that attack, you have been atacked therefore what happans to stealth when you are attacked you lose it.

one or more of these two cards need to be re written untill then a hit is a hit and you suffer the releivent damage as a result of a hit.

Until this is oficaly cleared up my response is role the dice my freind as your argument is flawed maybe less flawed than mine but how can you say its clearly people not reading the rules its an interpreation thing, im attacking with missles that allows me to strike out at multiple targets, in one attack i can cause attack damage to multiple targets. The point of this type of missliles that is been waekend down but can be applied to multiple targets, therefore multiple targets get hit in the attack it may say damage on the card but its damage from an attack.

What is it with people making up their own rules this month? I know it's March Madness, but I thought that was only for people who liked sweaty games.

Let's look at the actual rules:

Pg 12, 6. Compare Results: "During this step, players compare their dice results to determine whether the defender was HIT. To determine whether the defender was hit, compare the number of {Evade}, {Hit}, and {Critical Hit} results in the common area….If there is at least one uncanceled {Hit} or {Critical Hit} result remaining, the defender is considered hit."

Assault Missiles: "If this attack hits, each other ship at range 1 of the target suffers 1 damage."

Stealth Device: "If you are hit by an attack, discard this card."

"Hit" is not a generic, fluffy term. It's defined in nice big bold letters as having {Hit} or {Critical Hit} results on the dice which are not canceled by {Evades} on the defense dice. Assault missiles hit their original target, and then do damage to everything else around it. Does that "blast" damage count as hitting the target? Nothing says it does on the Assault Missile card, and there were no dice rolled against the ships hit in the blast, so they can't possibly have been hit. Being damaged in an attack is not the same as being hit by an attack. So that leaves the stealth device. When is it lost? On a hit. Not damaged by an attack, not damaged by anything - just a hit.

Bazinga said:

I can totally see how you could interpret the effects of an Assault Missile to be part of an attack. But on the Assault Missile card itself it differentiates between hit by the attack and damage. And the concept of "being hit by an attack" is pretty clearly defined. I think that trumps any other ambiguities.

That said, I know a LOT of people are confused by this, so it wouldn't hurt to toss it in the next faq update… but if you go by the letter of the rules, this one seems pretty black and white.

Bazinga said:

You are wrong on so many levels that I honestly don't know where to begin. But if you feel you need it "oficaly cleared up", feel free to submit a rules question to FFG by using the link at the bottom of the page. I'm pretty sure the answer you get will be the same one you have already been given multiple times but for some unknown reason refuse to accept.

So let me see if I understand this. Your head is split open because of a bat hitting it but you should be unafected by this because the holder of the bat was aiming at the guy next to you. Are some of you realy trying to argue this point.

Ugh, ok, I'll give it a go.

Assault Missiles: If this attack hits, each other ship at Range 1 of the defender suffers 1 damage.

Stealth Device: If you are hit by an attack, discard this card.

Rulebook, page 12 "If there is at least one uncanceled hit or critical hit result remaining, the defender is considered hit."

So, we're setting the stage: I target your X-wing with Stealth, of which I have a target lock on, and my ship is equipped with Assault Missiles. Your Awing, also with Stealth, is within Range 1 of your Xwing. I spend my target lock to use my Assault Missiles on your Xwing. I roll my attack dice.

Now which of your ships is doing the dice rolling, the Xwing or the Awing? That is the ship being attacked. That is the ship that can be hit with the Assault Missiles. Ok, we compare results, and the attack was a hit, based on the rules on page 12. Because the Xwing was hit by the attack, it will have to discard its Stealth Device card.

But since your Awing was within range 1 of the ship that was hit with the Assault Missiles, your Awing will suffer one damage. Notice I did not say that the Awing was hit by the attack, because it wasn't. The Xwing was, which we just discussed. Therefore, the Awing will suffer one damage, but because it was not the ship hit by the attack, it will not have to discard its Stealth Device.

End result, the Xwing will suffer the uncancelled damage from the Missiles attack, and it will lose its Stealth Device.

The Awing will suffer one damage, but will get to keep its Stealth Device.

Others have said the same thing in different ways. This is how we all understand it. And we're trying to help you understand it as well, so that we can all have a good gaming experience.

As a caveat, any of MY ships within Range 1 of the ship hit by the attack will also suffer one damage. If equipped with Stealth Device, they will not lose it either.

Ozmodon65 said:

No. We are discussing the intricacies of certain rules involved in a space combat simulation game that uses miniatures. I'm afraid your crude analogy has no bearing on the subject at hand.

Ozmodon65 said:

Oh, I'd certainly be affected. I'd still take the damage to my head, after all.

But my "Stealth Device by Nike" sneaks would still be in perfect condition, since the blood spatter would all be away from me. If he'd been aiming at me the swing would have been more downward, causing extensive blood to cover my shoes and ruining the Stealth Device logo as well as the famous Nike Swoosh.

Next week on "Crazy Rule Analogies": Dexter stalks Dutch Vander to determine if his willful sharing of target locks deserves death, or if it's justified in the name of good leadership!

Buhallin said:

OK so I was wrong about the analogy not bearing on the subject at hand. But to be relevant, the bat did not actually hit your head, it hit the other guy's head, and when it shattered (because the fool didn't pay attention to where the trademark was) one of the pieces clipped your Numa shades and knocked them off, so now you're unprotected from solar glare. Agree with the blood spatter analysis, though, those Nike trainers are as stealthy as ever.

I'm looking forward to the Dexter/Dutch matchup, but I'm really excited about seeing Tyrion Lannister corner Garven about the excessive distribution of Focus tokens. Have you seen the trailers???

Maybe this is too snarky - but if a rules interpretation depends on detailed parsing of text from various sources…

I'm gonna trust the one who can properly form a sentence.

Hothie: Unless I am mistaken, at the point where you said MY ships, it would actually be 'any' ships at range 1 of the defender. In this way, the attacker can also splat his own ships with an Assault Missile.

Rulebook, page 12 "If there is at least one uncanceled hit or critical hit result remaining, the defender is considered hit."

Thanks but it's not a lack of understanding of this point that's how one calculates if the missiles have hit or not.

The assault missiles card is the only card that allows multiple ships to be hit durning the attack phase, people want to argue that this damage is the same as damage received for example astroids and mines which occurs during the movement part of the game and not the attack part. Or claim its caused by splash damage and not strictly an attack. I'm still trying to find splash damage in the rule book.

As this damage is a result of damage substained in an attack what are your thoughts?

Is it damage as a result of an attack where one person rolled attack dice and one person has defended with that ship being attacked by rolling defence dice. And has attack has been declared a success,

There is what seven phases to the attack or combat stage the last being compare damage and any damage record at this stage is regarded as combat damage.

And combat damage can only occur as a result of an attack. Therefore regardless of which ship defended you have been hit in the attack.

radiskull said:

I was originally going to point out hitler could form perfect sentences he did write a book, given your argument he is clearly right, but then I remembered he was an evil man and could not bring myself to compare him to anything.

Bazinga said:

No, you have been DAMAGED by an attack. Being HIT, as you referenced in your own post, is only something that happens TO THE SHIP THAT IS DEFENDING. Being HIT and being DAMAGED are NOT the same thing, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you throughout this whole thread. Your refusal to accept this simple fact is starting to border on the ludicrous.

Another quote from your post::

"The assault missiles card is the only card that allows multiple ships to be hit durning the attack phase,"

NO it does not. It allows multiple ships to be DAMAGED during the attack phase.

BEING HIT AND BEING DAMAGED ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

Seriously, what part of this do you not understand?

Aaaand we're Godwin'ed. Nice.

Be cool zig. It's nothing to get gray hairs over. Make your case. Use the rulebook.