I've been waiting for it since its announcement, but though still listed as Q2 2013 (while initially the first three chapter packs were meant to come out in Q1) the development seems to be taking ages. The first three APs have been announced for months but they're still "in development" (like the fourth and fifth APs) except for The Steward's Fear which is "in printing" (and it's been there for much more time than usual). Most of the other LCGs cycles have already started to be released (AGOT and SW are the those I buy and both of their new cycles have seen the light already, AGOT with 3 chapter packs in less than 2 months, although some of them were announced later than those from LOTR). For what I see in the upcoming section pretty much all of the LCGs are "in motion" while LOTR is being stuck there for quite a good while…no AP was moved to a different status in the last few months…the only product that's done progresses is On the Doorstep which was released a few weeks ago…It appears this is the only LCG that suffers such heavy delays…plus in more than 6 months we've only seen 5 articles regarding the cycle (one for each AP)…I hope we'll see them soon enough but I doubt it since they're all in development except one…My Leadership Boromir is going to die of old age before he can actually take part in an adventure with his fellow Gondorians…Do any of you remeber how long did it take for The Redhorn Gate to be released after Khazad-Dum hit the shelves ?…

So…what do you guys think the problem is if there is one…?

According to BGG, my first attempt with The Redhorn Gate was 17 March last year, and I would have probably had it no longer than a week before that, so I've been half expecting The Steward's Fear to appear anytime now. Not that it means much, of course, but still! I live in the UK, where we tend to get things around two weeks after the US anyway, so the way it's going, I'm not expecting to see this cycle begin before the end of April.

I do just think it's the lot of this game to suffer incredibly bad delays. Whatever the reason, it seems to have been the only one that is so plagued. I've only known it to happen to one battle pack in Warhammer, otherwise these long months of nothing tend to be exclusively the preserve of LotR. As to why - who knows? Maybe Christopher Tolkien insists on vetting each card before it is passed for release…

I also want to get the new cycle started, but at the same time I like that they are taking their time to 'develope' the cards even if they have to push back the release date as result. Better they take their time in developing and play testing cards than getting rushed goods.

I don't think anyone wants any more Zigil Miner/Imladris Stargazer fiasco where card comboes developers so eagerly told us to try out (there being article dedicated to the combo and all that) ended up recieving errata.

I agree Ellareth, i am hoping they are playtesting the hell out of it so that we dont get any problems down the line with errors. I dont mind waiting as long as they produce a well balanced AP. For example, i WAS going to get the LOTR dice building game but it seems they have rushed it out into stores and all the reviews i have read are awful. They say there is a great game in there but the rules are unbelievably badly written and everyone is confused about how to play the bloody thing. So judging by that, like i said, i hope the delay is from extra play testing and rules checking.

Yes I agree with you guys, but then again, all the other LGCs need to be playtested as well (and being PvP they need a lot more playtest I think…also because there are tournaments around the corner)…I really don't see the reason to delay LOTR so much…maybe they just need more playtesters…And as for your trouble Spalanzani, I am from Italy, so I need more or less the same amount of time to get a product after it's released (obviously online only because in italy there's no way you get to buy anything in english…and everything they translate is generally awful)…As for the Ziggy/Imladris combo I still don't see why they killed it. You needed to get 2 cards out to get the combo going (so you needed at least 2 zigil and 2 imladris plus high cost discardable cards, thus taking away a few slots in the deck…) I think Elrond+Vilya and Steward of Gondor are much stronger…but they (obviously) haven't been errataed…

I think the reason is that we just had a large expansion come out and they normally give a three month buffer around those. If you think about the timing of the recent large expansions, there was Hobbit 1 (August), Heirs of Numenor (November), and Hobbit 2 (February). So there's a good 3 months inbetween those releases. With that precident, Mid-May would not be an unreasonable release date for Steward's Fear. But I sincerely hope it's not that long!

The thing to remember is that we are getting 3 scenarios with each of these large expansions, so, in Adventure Pack terms, that's three months worth of content. So they're on a reasonable pace, it just doesn't feel like that because our consumer addicted brains want constant stimulation by a something "new." Ok, I'm getting too psychological, I'll stop.

Yes you're right about that Narsil, but I think that wasn't their intention since the hobbit part 2 was scheduled to be released at the end of december, and the Steward's fear was scheduled for the end of january. You have to consider that the Saga Expansions are not meant to be Deluxe expansions…they're just other products…the three months thing is right but it was supposed to be done like : Core Set -> The Hunt For Gollum (three mohts), Khazad-Dum -> The Redhorn Gate (three months), Heirs of Numenor -> The Steward's Fear (three months, but it's been almost six months since its release). The problem, at least for me, is that the they've messed up with the hobbit expansions, they were scheduled to come out in september (as it did) and december (Awfully delayed), in between there should have been Hon (1 month delay), because at the end of January they were to start with Against the Shadow (which would be perfect with the three month thing)…but now we've been having Hon for about six months and no AP. I love building new decks so I'm still comfortable, because if nothing new comes out I just try new things but I don't understand why they have to "lie" to us. Plus the whole game seems to have been put in a "lower category" than the others…I mean, last year we had plenty of articles (even 7 in one month)…while now we're seeing like one every 3 weeks (obviosly excluding those useless game night kits, tournament rules clarification, LOTR art sleeves articles etc….)…I'd like to see more participation on their front…I know it's a non-competitive game but It's still the best LOTR game ever. This is just my opinion but it is also one of their best products…I'd put some more regard into it if I were them…just that…

I agree with you Devastazione, and to be completely honest, I think that FFG just doesn't really care about this game, and that it's one of their lowest priorities. What's with the delays and those "periodic" second breakfast articles? (which are NOT really periodic, as the very article says, they will be written "from time to time", and "whenever they can", talk about ambigous!). It just came clear to me long ago that they haven't shown real concern about the game since probably the end of the Dwarrodelf cycle, when they realized that the whole cooperative aspect turned out to be pretty much a failed experiment that they're forced to keep up with.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and will keep on playing it, but that's just my guess at what FFG feels about it and, to me, the reason they haven't released anything new, be it new packs or articles.

Gizlivadi said:

I agree with you here.

Gizlivadi said:

I think this is ridiculous. This is one of their best selling games. I think it's true that Netrunner and Star Wars are getting a little more attention right now but that's only because they're new and need help to get off the ground. We hear this kind of doomsday nonsense every time we have to wait a bit for a release. To me it's a sign of immature impatience.

I do not know about the sales but I would not be surprised if it sold well since it is based on Tolkien which certainly has more potential than games based on poor writing or silly horror stuff (even in this crooked world), my opinion only, of course. But if it is their better selling, they certainly do not treat it very well. The lack of playtesting is outright shocking for instance. We get cards, only to get errata for them in a month or two, like Nori or Thror's Map. And it is not errata due to some new smart combo, but due to total absence of foresight in this matter. We also get constant delays, of many months now even.

Some people laugh about doomsaying but the threads are all but dead, there is little argument about it. Both ffg and bgg has been silenced. Maybe that is normal at this stage of the existence of the game, and maybe it is not important to have an internet forum to help the game (or sale); both very likely.

lleimmoen said:

the threads are dead b/c of naysaying crap like this.

i know many, many ppl who don't visit the FFG forums anymore b/c of the crap spewed here. the negativity of these boards is (or at least was) rampant. it certainly drives me away for months at a time, always hoping when i return that it'll be different. it never is.

1) it is one of their best selling games as has been reported many different places, not the least of all GenCon

2) this game is playtested. i know some of the playtesters. is it playtested enough? perhaps not. but you must remember FFG is a company of around 100 people, including IT, marketing, and all sorts of other non-game design personnel. it's not a huge company by any means - and they certainly don't all work for LOTR.

you can find lively, vibrant, positive discussion about this game in other locations. the FFG boards are not that.

it's full of people bitching about anything that comes out (what?!? a deck article! screw that!) instead of appreciating the work that is getting put into a game you all supposedly support/love. and good lord - people are seriously claming nothing has come out for the game? we've had 9 quests since August, plus 3 nightmare decks (if you were able to score those from your local gamestore). That's 12 new quests since August, 13 if you count Laketown. Some folks really need some perspective. That is more player cards and quests than we'd ever get out of a full 6 month cycle!

the designers work long hours, for what i hear is little pay and even less recognition.

delays happen. most of us have no inside information as to why. so it's pointless to speculate and (incorrectly) claim that FFG doesn't care about the game, doesn't playtest, etc. it's simply insulting to those who work so hard to deliver a good game.

A bit strong to call what I wrote crap but okay. Maybe it was ****.

Not sure negative has anything to do with it. I myself have called this game my all time favourite. I have not played that many, perhaps, but it still is. Nevertheless, there was never this "doomsaying" discussion on bgg and you can see nothing is going on there either. I do not know what sites you go to but I doubt they exist. But again, this is not the issue I was stressing, just noting the facts.

Say playtesting is poor is objective by any standard. The designers themselves would have to agree with that if they "errata" several cards before the next pack comes out. I do not know the reason for it but you do not have to be a genius to know Thror's Map is way too powerful and makes a card like Strider's Path (same sphere, same cost) totally obsolete. In a similar way, you could play a few games with Nori to find out his threat reduction puts any other to shame in a proper deck, and there had already been so many ways to recycle allies or otherwise put them into play, aside of having Bofur, for instance. And this makes me very angry because I want my expensive cards to do what is written on them but at the same time I respect the designer's visions and want to play the game accordingly.

Actually mine was not doomtalking, I was just trying to understand why, of all LCGs, only this one (which is my all-time favourite and I'll never stop thanking FFG for) gets delyed so much…Also because, as you stated, it's one of their bestselling games. Maybe they really are trying to improve it by avoiding to release cards that get new erratas soon after their release, who knows…I was just trying to see what the other people thought about that. And about the deck articles, I said they are sometimes pointless because they seem to be created by people who don't play the game (like the deck with Aragorn, Elladan and Elrohir that is almost unplayable because of the many cards that oppose other cards and the total lack of willpower plus the 32 threat). That said I'm not saying they don't do their job well…they absolutely do, all I was trying to understand was everyone's opinion about the delays. That's all. I play this game almost on a daily basis, both solo and multi…so I really am the last person on earth who doomtalks about it…If I talk about it is because I don't want it doomed…and you can't say that a little more articles (even deck articles but a little more thought for) would be welcome to show us they didn't forget us. That's my opinion, everybody has a different one, luckily.

Of course you were'nt doomtalking, there are just some people apparently thinking that all the comments must be positive and any complaint is disgraceful; which I think is lot of rubish. I at least feel entitled to opinion, including distribution, after having bought all the products. I do love the game, I am not crazy about the management.

We are from very different traditions. You guys must not be into PC gaming. A 3 month break between releases is a microscopic blip for me. It certainly says nothing to me about the health of the game!

Sometimes releasing too much can be a detriment as well. I for one am grateful for a bit of a breather having been with the game since release two years ago. There are 23 quests now with enough variety to keep me coming back for more. I've had the second hobbit box for nearly two weeks and haven't even had time to play a single quest yet. I've just spent some of my free time tweaking my decks with the new cards and playtesting against older quests to see if I like the changes.

I am certainly not hurting for money by any stretch, but if you have everything released up to this point were talking about around $375 + tax if you paid full price for everything. That's a lot of cash! This break gives some new people an opportunity to buy the game and catch up a bit without having to worry about falling behind further with tons of new quests coming out every couple weeks.

There will always be people with tons of time who can overplay quests like crazy. There are probably many more people that play casually (a couple times a week).

First of all, I am not "doomsaying", as you seem to believe. I am not saying the game is doomed, or that it will stop being published soon or anything about that. I am also not saying that everyone in FFG is not happy with the game, only that the majority of the company is, and that only a couple of the developers are fully devoted into it, or at least seem to be. To some of you, for someone who always complain about the rudeness and "unpleasant" posts of certain member's posts here, you could be a little more polite. You sounded very rude, when I was only saying my opinion of what FFG thinks about the game (not even what I think).

Second, I do not know much about Lotr lcg being one of FFG's bestselling games. Here at least it certainly isn't. The vast majority of people who play LCGs play AGOT, Android: Netrunner, Warhammer and Star Wars. There's big events for these games every month and leagues, etc, while for this game there are only a couple of players and to actually buy the products you have to order them personally. I don't know how it is over there, but I can give you (with some doubt) that Lotr is one of their most important games. The thing is, be it or not, it doesn't show. Almost all (if not all) of the other LCGs get a lot more attention from FFG in terms of releasing their products on time, seeing preview and feature articles and such. Do you actually think it's a sign of "immature impatience" to feel upset when we have two or three months of delay for the releases for Lotr and see no articles in weeks, when none of the other games have this problem, or at least not this badly? I think it's fair to expect professionalism from a professional and successful company such as this. Say what you want, but I think it can be said with a certain degree of objectivity that FFG's schedule system for Lotr is a joke. I honestly don't know how you can defend another opinion. Sure, they need to playtest and develop, but at least don't announce a release for a certain period of the year if you are not even sure you will release it in said period. To be honest, I feel kinda ripped off.

Dain Ironfoot said:

Ok, this is bit too much.

I know you probably do more for LotRLCG community than me, and from what I can tell, there may have been a time when people were just trolling and hurting each other's feeling.

However, I felt like I needed to reply to this, because I feel like I would also be included in your category of rampant negativity of the boards that drived people away.

Everyone who says anything bad about the game should shut up because it drives people away?

What is wrong with 'bitching' about things that come out when they are less than what you expected?

'FFG is small company, designers work many hours'….. well that's not exactly consumer's fault now is it?
I don't know anything about how company works, but they have money to buy license to create SW and LOTR and GoT and Cthulu products, that sounds like big enough company to hire some more people if needed.

This thread wasn't that negative, it was merely people wondering why there is delay in LotRLCG but not in any other LCG products. There was no trolling involved.

The thread about articles pointed out it is perhaps better if FFG used only 1 core set in their decks as not all of us have multiple Core Set, and it was also pointing out a simple mistake they made about Elrond's Council, which could've been fixed if they proof read it bit more.

As you pointed out 1) This is one of their top sellers, 2) FFG doesn't spend enough resources to play test the game enough.
Maybe if we 'bitched' enough, upper management will higher more people to take care of this product better.

As far as I can tell, FFG is NOT team of dedicated fans making LOTR products for free, they are huge company that makes many frenchise, and why shouldn't we (fans of LOTRLCG) be entitled to feedback?

Ellareth said:

Hey man, Durin and his friends they just a bit like s kids (and probably they are) dont try to argue with them just give them candies and that all.

Sure this game is not a best seller. And since they change Star Wars idea from cooperative to competive i understand the lotr will be only game like this. so is mean this game idea is not the best but is very unique and take her own place. Game without tourney system cannot be more sucessefull then game with tourney system. Cose you make a lot of promo and sells on tourney system.

Sure they dont do job properly from the begin. Sure they dont play test as needed and sure they concentrate more on other games now. They done a lot of mistaces and players who have experience with other card game like MTG or AGOT can see it straght away. But this game a bit like experiment. Anyway is going better now.

And there is no other big lotr card game anyway…….. So we will play this game and trying to make this game better if we can. And our complain is a part of the way to make this game better.

Still Middle earth CCG is the best Tolkien card game ever.

I guess I'll repeat again what I *think* the problem is and why *think* the schedule has slipped. When Heirs of Numenor was released there was a general outcry over its difficulty and a warning from a lot of veteran players to noobs to stay away from this box until the players had more experience. It's a box for Boromirs and not Bilbos. Yes there were players who loved the increased difficulty, but the word "brutal" was repeated often.

In a given adventure about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the encounter cards come from the boxed set that preceeded it. But now there is no way to downgrade the difficulty of the cards from the boxed set which means the adventure packs were probably going to be pretty hard too. So I think FFG went scrambling back to the drawing board to figure out a way to downgrade the difficulty of the adventure packs given that most of the encounter cards have already been printed. If true, this is a tall order.

This is all speculation on my part, but it fits the facts as we know them. Furthermore, if true, it would show a commitment to the game by FFG which I would applaud.

(I also applaud the release of the Nightmare packs to ramp of the difficulty as we get better and the card pool deepens.)

To be honest, without knowing the inside information (like sales figures) I would need to really chime in here, I don't really feel comfortable saying whether or not FFG as a whole likes this game or whether or not it sells well. Anecdotal evidence and assumptions aren't really good enough to make conclusions either way. I was curious about the whole question of how often FFG releases articles about LOTR compared to the other LCG's and whether that shows anything about support for the game.

Here's what I found looking back just the past 3-4 months (number of articles):

Star Wars: 18

Netrunner: 17

Game of Thrones: 15

Warhammer Invasion: 15

Lord of the Rings: 13

Call of Cthulhu: 8

Here's what I found looking back about 9-10 months (number of articles):

Warhammer Invasion: 45

Netrunner: 40

Game of Thrones: 39

Lord of the Rings: 34

Star Wars: 25 (keep in mind this wasn't released until recently)

Call of Cthulhu: 24

From these numbers, Lord of the Rings is pretty close to the other LCG's, and there isn't a significant difference. If you keep in mind that the other LCG's get tournament news and recaps posted for them that LOTR obviously doesn't, and if you took those articles out of the statistis I compiled here, then LOTR would be neck and neck with the other games.

Bullroarer Took said:

Despite everything I've said, I hope you're right.

One other little thing. I live and work close to my FLGS and I'm often there within 30 minutes of being called and told the latest expansion is in. For the core set and the Mirkwood cycle I was the only person with a reserve. For Hobbit 2 there were at least six people with reserves. It's is a pretty small shop in a fairly populated area. Just for what it's worth.

There's a lot to respond to, I think, and I probably won't respond to everything that was said regarding my post.

First and foremost, I apologize for the tone of my post. I could tell you I hit "quote" on the wrong post (I did - I truly meant to be directly responding to someone else) but that still doesn't change the tone/tenor of my piece of writing.

I could present rationale after rationale as to why I wrote my reponse the way I did (long day, stress, late at night) but it changes nothing, in my humble opinion, at the end of the day. I came across as an asswipe, plain and simple. For that, again, I apologize.

I was trying to make a larger point about the types of conversations had about this game on BGG vs. FFG Forums vs. the various blogs about this game vs. COTR Facebook and the commenters at all of these various venues. There is no doubt in my mind that the disucssion here is consistently more critical, more negative, and less plesant than any other webpage devoted to this game.

But, in trying to make that point, I did exactly what I dislike reading. I came across as an arrogant prick.

I have plenty of annoyances with this game, to be sure. The delays don't annoy me like they do others, but certainly the unanswered/unclear rules questions do. As does the "loose" language on the cards. Amongst other things.

At the same time, I appreciate the direction Caleb Grace has taken this game. I appreciate that I get a response from FFG (read: Caleb) within less than 24 hours every. single. time. I submit a rules question (barring weekends, of course). He's pleasant. He's professional. He seems like a **** nice guy. I appreciate that. And I've taken the time to let him know that I, and my entire play group, appreciate the work he and FFG are doing for the game.

I appreciate that FFG lets us know they read the forums and try to respond, through their new series of articles, to the fanbase.

Maybe I took some of these posts too "personally." Ever since I saw that Caleb reads the various message boards and group pages devoted to this game, I started to think "How would I feel if I was this game's designer and saw people constantly ragging on the designers, saying they don't care, they don't playtest, and they are just screwing with us, etc?"

Looking back, it's somewhat silly of me to take these things personally. I didn't need to react with the tone I did. It was inappropriate and, ultimately, not helpful.

Look, I love this game. I love the community. I love the friends I've made - friends I'd never have made without this game - from across the globe. This co-op games brings people together. I feel so cheesey writing it. But in my case, it's been true.

I love introducing this game to new people at my FLGS. Everyone who plays it likes it. And they come back. In my area we've developed a weekly "LCG" group, playing all of FFG's games - and LOTR is always a staple. Sure, SW and Netrunner are hot. But everyone who talks about LOTR talks about how they just want to play a fun adventure with their buddies, trek across Middle Earth, and have a good time; it isn't always about bashing your opponent.

To me, what's so special about this game is that it's about playing with your buds. Having a good time. And being positive.

I'm disappointed that, in my previous post, I wasn't embodying the spirit of this game that I love so much.