Hello,

I bought 1 Core Game and 1 of each expansion (except millenium and slave, for now ) in order to play with a friend.

lets say a game of 3 tie vs 1 X and A-wing…. my friend chose the 3 ties and i chose the 2 x and A-wing…

Now the questions regarding the upgrades….

* The x wing has the "medal" upgrade logo
* The a wing has the also the medal upgrade logo
* the 3 ties have the medal upgrade logo

1) The upgrades can be chosen by any team ? ot they are destinated to the team of the art work ?

2)How do we choose these upgrade knowing that there is only one copy of each except the "determination" ?

Thank you

Any pilot that can take upgrades can take ANY upgrade. This is why you need multiple ships.

Thank you for your answers… but this means if someone wants to play in a tournament, he needs to buy a huge amount of expansions just to obtain an upgrade cards several time….



if for example one is flying with 3 ties with a unique pilot in each one and wants the exact same upgrade card which can be found in another expansion….he needs to buy 3 times this expansion ??? i mean thats a lot of money….

True. My Imperial build uses 2 Tie Fighters and 2 Tie Interceptors, but the upgrades required I purchase 2 A-wings and 2 Firespray. I spent more on the upgrades than I did for the actual squadron, but that was more due to me wanting to have exactlly what I wanted. If you wanted to run the 8 Tie Fighter build you'd spend almost as much, and not have any upgrades. It's all in how your working your purchases to playstyle.

Some upgrades are available in different expansions. However, yes, if there is a specific build you want to run involving specific upgrades or modifications, you might have to purchase expansions just for their cards.

Or play with the card as a common-to-all-who-have-it card. Most of those Elite Talent cards aren't discardable, and so you can play with one card for any pilots who have it. Or are we such an anti-sportsmanship community that we can't cut each other a little slack?

Cilionelle said:

As a community I've played cards in proxy with no problem, but if you are going to compete in an "official" tournament you'll have to have the goods. I think it's pretty much that way in any game.

Cilionelle said:

Why is it unsportsmanlike to expect someone to follow the rules in an official event? Isn't it more unsportsmanlike to expect exception to rules when others abide by them?

However, I do feel like there is a ton of untapped potential here with this game still. I have been a long time mtg player that has on occassion dabbled with miniatures games here and there but could never fall in love. X-wing however was instant love. Yes I am a fan of the franchise but it's more than that. I think it lends itself better to the common or more casual gamer better than others of its kind. On that note, ffg has something here that i feel they could make a little more main stream by making it a bit more consumer friendly. Simply offer more! give us some 5 card packs of pilots. Seperate packs of upgrade cards. Heck, diversify the crit results by customizing the damage cards with expansions for that as well. And finally, PLEASE release more ships from different eras!

ScottieATF said:

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not talking about "exceptions to the rules when others abide by them", I'm talking about cutting someone a little slack when it comes to playing across the table from them. Certainly, I might have the money to buy five or six of every mini I need, but not everyone is in the same position. I would hope that if I was in the position where I went to an official event and didn't have the full deck of four or five cards I needed, that where it was appropriate, someone would give me grace. That's also what I would expect of myself: if a player isn't able to buy all the cards they need, I'm not going to require it of them. If it ruins the fun of the event or the game to insist upon it, if it becomes a negative in what should be a great event, then, yeah, as far as I'm concerned that is bad sportsmanship.

Speaking as somebody who's heavily into their AGOT LCG, there are several aspects the games have in common:

• Fixed distribution rarity
• Full knowledge of the available product pool
• component images available online

For these reasons, the use of proxies in our LCG group is very nearly encouraged, as a wider card pool gives more strategic depth and helps people both learn the game better and prepare for competetive events. So, I would say sure, for casual and practice play, absolutely you should use whatever proxies you need to test the squadrons you want. Of course that's complicated by the fact that you've got physical components that are a lot more developed than just printing out a card image to the right size and slipping into a sleeve over a backing card. But whatever workarounds you come up with.

Of course, when it comes to going to a tournament you've got to bring the goods--the purpose of proxying is to refine and narrow down your shopping list. And as I said on another thread, it's no good holding your breath that FFG is going to print up cheap packs of upgrade cards--if you want to run four stealth devices, you gotta buy two Firesprays, or borrow from a friend who isn't using theirs at the moment. Hopefully some of those smexy Large Ship upgrade cards will make encore appearances in Wave 3 ships at the $15 price point--I could see Engine Upgrade in a B-Wing pack or Stealth Device in a TIE Bomber. Either way, I don't see FFG cutting into the sales of the minis by making the cards available separately.

elite pilot skills can be bought by anyone who has the option.

All good points here, in the end though, if you love it, support it. Nothing is free. I have bought some craptastic new video games for 60 bucks plenty of times. I have spent somewhere in the range of 8,000-10,000 on mtg in 15 years of playing and collecting. I think the price point for X-Wing, no matter where you are buying it from, is pretty much right where it belongs.

christizzz said:

Here's what I'm thinking;

As people have stated, if you're just playing with your friends at home, or in pick-up games at your FLGS, then proxy away, my friend. Anyone who's going to grief with you over that is just not very sporting. However, in a tournament, where the tournament rules do state that you have to have ALL of the components you are choosing to use, you must respect that other people have followed that and made the necessary buys to run their list.

So let's take a look at your quandry and maybe you can shed some additional insight for us. The upgrade cards are all spread around between the different ships, so yes, to get a good mix of everything, you need to buy everything, in multiples. So let's say your tournament list is, by your example, 3 TIE's. It doesn't matter if it's Fighter/Advanced/Interceptor. You want them to each have a copy of Upgrade X that comes in another ship pack.

Yes, in that case, you would be buying 3 copies of that other ship pack to make your list tournament legal, and that seems like a lot of money for 3 tiny little cards. BUT, what if you get tired of running that same 3 TIE list over and over? What if it's just not working out the way you planned? Sounds like you might be ready to explore some other options. If that's the case, look at that, you've already got these other 3 ships sitting around to play with.

I'm not disagreeing that buying a bunch of everything isn't going to cost some serious cash, but when you're making a value judgement on something like that, try and consider the overall utility. I hate it when someone says "just spend the extra $50 and get these things" because it implies all you have going on in your life is this one hobby and no other expenses. What I will say is that this game, like any expandable game, becomes more enriched the more money you invest into it.

If you've got a lot of games like this on the go, and your gaming budget is stretched to the limit, then you may have to make some tough calls around that, but then this leads to the question of whether you should be trying to invest in another game system that you can't afford to do. Using myself as an example, last year I bought into Netrunner, Star Wars LCG and X-Wing. As much as I love Netrunner, I think it's going to take a backseat for a long time, because I've devoted those "gaming resources" to X-Wing. I'm just a couple of A-Wings and a TIE Interceptor away from being "complete" in the purchases through Wave 2. When I get there, I've got Force Packs coming out for Star Wars LCG to keep injecting newness into my gaming. Luckily for my wallet, the releases have been staggered out so far, but I couldn't imagine trying to shoe-horn another cost into that, per my own budget.

If one is all you can handle, then just pick away at it slowly, and you'll get to where you're going. There's a bunch of resources online that detail which cards come with which set, and what they all do, so you can plan your purchases out that way to ensure you're as cash efficient as possible. With that in mind, as you pick off those extra ship packs, you will be able to add more variety to your playing, so you will see some returns on your investment in that sense.

I do know of some players that are really hell-bent on only playing one faction over the other. There are some "passionate" Imperial or Rebel-only players that feel it's a rip-off to them personally to have to buy these extra ships from the other side of the fence. It seems crazy for me to be so "into" the game that way, but it's not for me to judge. If you're not married to having to play one side or the other, just slowly collect away, play some games, and have some fun.

GumbySmash said:

This is likely going to get me out of the game. I've got a good range of Wave 1 ships, enough to play the lists I want from both sides. But in order to play my Wave 2 lists at offcicial events, I need to buy not only the two YT-1300s I want to play, but also a Slave-1. And if I want to play my new X-Wing squadron, I need 2 Slave-1 boxes. Yet I don't want to play Slave-1 in any list. So I'm looking at a s $60 retail purchase just to get upgrade cards for the lists I want to play.

I consider that to be a bad business model. FFG needs to consider making a POD upgrade pack available.

The question is when playing in a tournament do you have to prove you own any ships, can you not borrow a freinds set who happans not to be playing that day, a proxie to me is a scrible on a peice of paper, can you not also then borrow cards of frinds if there not using them on the day?

Bazinga said:

Of course you could. It's not so much about "ownership" as it is having the physical components at the table when it's tournament time. It doesn't matter to me if your Firespray was bought by you, or it's your friend's and it's being borrowed. As long as you have everything at the table, how it got there is of little consequence to the match.

As you can imagine, the reasoning behind having to have "official" components, and the distribution behind the cards, is to provide incentive for people to invest in the whole range of products, rather than just those select few ships they want. You can still do that, but you won't have "the best" combo set ups as someone who has the whole range in multiples.

This is no different than any organized play structure, even within FFG's LCG play, and other external games. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying "you have to buy two Core Sets" to do well at a Star Wars LCG tournament, but probability will favour the opponent who did. Either way, as miniatures games goes, we're all saving a fortune on models, and time on painting, so I call that a win.

Another reason behind having to have only official components at events is more marketing purposes. If you were the FLGS running the the event, having to have the models means more sales opportunities for your store. If you let everyone get away with paper scraps and other proxies at the "official" tournament, then you're probably not moving product, because people can win the prizes without the same dollar investment as someone playing by the "official" rules.

It also looks better in a photograph for FFG's publishing if it's all official game components on the table. You don't see a lot of Games Workshop hosted photographs of a tournament with a bunch of bare plastic models and other objects as vehicle proxies on the table.

Proxies are fine for casual play, not okay for official tournament play, as it has always been for any game system, and as it will likely remain.

As far as the models, heck yeah you can bring someone else's. I gave my friend my Imperial fleet for use in our FLGS' Kessel Run Tournament. If memory serves, the organizer loaned out his as well. Nothing wrong with that, sanctioned FFG event or no- as long as you have the stuff, you're good to go.

As for the cards, yeah, in a "friendly", I have no problem with folks using a single stealth card to represent it across the board or whatever. In tournaments though, you gotta play by tournament rules. It's FFGs game, and when it comes to playing in their non-mandatory, sanctioned events, then what they say goes- has nothing to do with sportsmanship or anything else.