Picasso said:
@endgame,
I've been flying maraek more with ptl and a black squadron escourt. At times the guy is better than Vader. I'm looking for a way to use him Vader and a third tie advanced to lay down some death. I've also put draw their fire on green squadron a-wings to escourt Han and eat crits.
I haven't run this, and it's perfectly possible that it will crash and burn, but I want to try at some point:
* Maarek+PtL+Concussion
* Vader+Concussion
* Bounty Hunter
@ Vorpal
I'm still trying to figure it out.
Picasso said:
@forceM
that is a similar list to the one I've struggled against. That heavy gun is a killer. The way I've beaten it is by stacking the crits on the Firespray and attacking it first. Honestly I haven't bumped the falcon against a tie in a while. However getting that ship to bump is huge. Also the X-wings shoot before the ties so you should be able to bring the Firespray down quick. That's what I try to do. I've also shot down all the ties first but that game was difficult.
Picasso said:
@forceM
that is a similar list to the one I've struggled against. That heavy gun is a killer. The way I've beaten it is by stacking the crits on the Firespray and attacking it first. Honestly I haven't bumped the falcon against a tie in a while. However getting that ship to bump is huge. Also the X-wings shoot before the ties so you should be able to bring the Firespray down quick. That's what I try to do. I've also shot down all the ties first but that game was difficult.
Yeah han goes first but Howl and Krassis after that. I know that it is far from unbeatable as a list, and it was as i said a very close call. But from a distance with that HLC Krassis feels pretty safe since sometnes you can even evade and trust your reroll. And 4 attack dice hurts X-Wings a lot and the Falcon even more than you get damaged from range 3. I will need to try expert handling sometimes on krassis innorer to barrel roll backwards and keep my distance…
@vorpal
i flew that three ship list this weekend. It was good. It did alright. Still lost. I need to fly it more. Also I had a hard time maneuvering the bounty hunter for shots. My ties were attacked first. I got both the x-wings then lost a tie advanced a turn after that. The bounty hunter took two crits and it was done.
ForceM said:
Yeah han goes first but Howl and Krassis after that. I know that it is far from unbeatable as a list, and it was as i said a very close call. But from a distance with that HLC Krassis feels pretty safe since sometnes you can even evade and trust your reroll. And 4 attack dice hurts X-Wings a lot and the Falcon even more than you get damaged from range 3. I will need to try expert handling sometimes on krassis innorer to barrel roll backwards and keep my distance…
Unfortunately, Krassis doesn't get an Elite Pilot upgrade, so no barrel rolls for him.
Believe me, it's the one thing that I wish I could have to really round out the Krassis HLC build. Barrel Rolls in Firesprays are crazy good.
how about a 2 Falcon build like this…
Han Solo + Gunner + determination
Chewie + Gunner + veteren instincts
thats alot of hull and shields to get through, id say on average you could expect chewie to dish out more damage that two x-wings because u usually use an x-wing pretty early on… after it gets off say two attacks leaving u with a single x-wing flying support for Han.
i would try and fly them both withing medium range of my intended targets but on opposite sides of the enemy allowing me to concentrate fire and forcing them to split their resources to cover both my ships. id even consider Draw their fire on Chewie to allows a mid-late game team-up as id expect them to go for han first so chewie might need him to take some of the heat once his shields are gone and he is eating hull damage.
thoughts?
i think draw their fire works better on 2 falcon builds because it allows you to spread out the damage so that one doesn't drop too quickly
executor said:
i think draw their fire works better on 2 falcon builds because it allows you to spread out the damage so that one doesn't drop too quickly
i agree! have u seen or tested any 2 falcon builds? if so what pilots/upgrades did they use.
The_Brown_Bomber said:
executor said:
i think draw their fire works better on 2 falcon builds because it allows you to spread out the damage so that one doesn't drop too quickly
i agree! have u seen or tested any 2 falcon builds? if so what pilots/upgrades did they use.
I won a 4 round tournament last Monday with 4 Full Wins killing every ship but against be using Han and Chewie both with DtF and Gunner. Only lost Chewie twice. Once in the second to last round, and once to the parting shot of my opponents last ship.
Picasso (I think) mentioned 4 A-wings with missiles. I only own two A-wings, so I'm not in a position to try it, but would that work against a Falcon build? Say, 4 Green Squadron Pilots (Deadeye, Concussion Missiles)? That leaves 4 points. You could upgrade to Assault Missiles if you think your opponent is dumb enough to keep his squad together when he sees four assault missile-carrying A-wings zipping his way.
EDIT: I'm actually most interested in hearing if anybody has tried it. How did it go?
@Parakitor
I have used the four green squads with VI and Homing missiles. against small ship builds it works great. Against ships that only have one green dice it SLAUGHTERS THEM!!!! The two Falcon lists fall fast to this because they cannot put down the damage fast enough against the A-wings three evade dice. The Homing missiles can destroy or cripple a falcon before it gets a second shot off. I've also done the cluster missile with dead eye and I think I upgraded one to a named pilot. It was late and I had played a lot of games already that night. it did the same amount of damage as the homing missiles. I look forward to bombers because they will lower the use of large base ships to one. This coming from the guy flying three Firesprays.
Against four fighter builds this list is amazing because the missiles can make it 4 to 2 real quick.
Picasso said:
I just cannot see how this is the case. A 4 dice attack with focus does an average of 2.5 hits. Even if the YT-1300 fails every one of its Agility rolls, you're still not going to take it out with 4 missiles unless you get very lucky with the dice.
vs
Good point, voidstate.
I came up with the idea when I saw a lot of the Han + Rookie builds flying with the Rookie pilots close to the Millennim Falcon so they can all pounce on the same target. I thought, "Hey, if Assault Missiles average 2 hits, and Han is busy with Marksmanship, I ought to be able to land every one of my Assault missiles on him, leaving Han shieldless at least, and the Rookies down to 1 hull point each. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that anybody could spot that strategy at setup from a mile away, and they would probably place Solo well out of range of the Rookies. This is why I considered switching to Concussion Missiles, because they have slightly better chance to hit. Hming Missiles are nice, but not much better than the Assault Missiles option. But then you have undamged X-wings to contend with.
@ Picasso: Why did you put Veteran Instincts on your Green Squadron Pilots? My biggest problem is that by the time you're in range of a Large ship to acquire a Target Lock, they'll move right into range 1 that same turn, and you've lost your chance for missiles. This is why I liked the idea of Deadeye.
voidstate said:
Picasso said:
I just cannot see how this is the case. A 4 dice attack with focus does an average of 2.5 hits. Even if the YT-1300 fails every one of its Agility rolls, you're still not going to take it out with 4 missiles unless you get very lucky with the dice.
vs
4 attack dice with a target lock (you don't spend the lock to launch a homing missile) resisted by only 1 evade die gives you around a 60% chance of getting 3+ hits. Given that the Falcon can't spend an evade token to mitigate the damage, and that you might get a critical or two through that does double damage, I think there's a not insignifcant chance of popping the Falcon in one round with 4 homing missiles.
There's around an 85% to 90% chance of getting 2+ hits per missile so it's certainly likely that at the very least you'll take out the Falcon's shields and land a crit and some hull damage, setting you up to finish it in round 2 with range 1 primary attacks.
Source for hit %s is: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/915146/math-wing-hit-probabilities
Wow that's a lot of questions. Here is my logic.
First I use VI a ton. With the release of wave two pilot skill matters so much more. Shooting before your opponent and taking them out before they shoot back is huge. Now I am a huge tourny player and I think that on some subconscious level I build a list to go against all lists. That is hard to do in this game. Where VI might not help me shoot before named YT pilots I'm shooting at a five which is before ALL unnamed pilots. I also shoot at the same time as some named pilots like CHEWIE. Han is hard pressed to one shot an A-wing. If the second YT is Chewie that A-wing will get his missile off.
Now I know a lot of people are running the math in this game and that is fine. I don't play that way. I also believe that if you don't roll three hits with a homing missile it is a fluke. You have a reroll. I roll two hits almost all the time with them and then pick up one or two more with the reroll. That happening four times in a row to a Falcon is going to bring it close to death if not death. Also if you get a little lucky and get some crits Poof!
As for one rounding the YT. I did it twice. I will admit the dice were with me. The other times I bring it down in the second round of shooting.
I don't want to say how or when I shoot my missiles because that is how I fly. I can get the range two shot in the second round.
All this being said I am a huge (maybe the original) Han shot first user. The three A-wings worries me the most. They are also the only ship I can't outmaneuver.
Out of curiosity Picasso how do you feel that 4 rookie X-wings with Torps compares to Awings with homing missiles? I suppose that you get less hits with the torps on average but your follow up fire in subsequent rounds has more bite…
I guess the question I should be asking is which build would you prefer to face with your Han Shoots First list?
I'm also wondering…for you Solo flyers….how well the Solo/Marksmanship/Gunner ship would work in a tournament atmosphere with two Gold Squadron Y's with Ion cannons.
All those 360 degree shots and massive numbers of sheilds and hull (29 total) sounds pretty boss to me.
Picasso said:
Now I know a lot of people are running the math in this game and that is fine. I don't play that way. I also believe that if you don't roll three hits with a homing missile it is a fluke. You have a reroll. I roll two hits almost all the time with them and then pick up one or two more with the reroll. That happening four times in a row to a Falcon is going to bring it close to death if not death. Also if you get a little lucky and get some crits Poof!
How are you getting the reroll you're talking about? Han doesn't let you pick and choose your dice for the reroll.
Sanguinary Priest said:
Picasso said:
Now I know a lot of people are running the math in this game and that is fine. I don't play that way. I also believe that if you don't roll three hits with a homing missile it is a fluke. You have a reroll. I roll two hits almost all the time with them and then pick up one or two more with the reroll. That happening four times in a row to a Falcon is going to bring it close to death if not death. Also if you get a little lucky and get some crits Poof!
How are you getting the reroll you're talking about? Han doesn't let you pick and choose your dice for the reroll.
Re-Read Homing Missles. You dont have to spend the lock.
Picasso said:
I don't want to say how or when I shoot my missiles because that is how I fly. I can get the range two shot in the second round.
I see. Well then, I guess I'd better pull out my A-wings and start getting some practice in. Experience is the best teacher, after all.
I'm currently flying four rookies. I do NOT believe in torpedoes. So I use what I think is a better upgrade for four points, shield upgrade. Chances are high that all of your X-wings will survive the first round of shooting. I took on five academy pilots and a pimped out slave one. I didn't loose a ship. This is the first list since wave two came out that I worry about no other lists. I took on two Falcons with this list and crushed it. I did eight damage the first round of shooting and took three total hits. Next round I lost an x-wing but traded out with one of the named pilots. I was putting down so much damage it was crazy.
So back to the torpedoes, until some other torp options come out I stay away from them.
Picasso said:
With what Hothie just stated, that is the best part of putting Marksmanship on Han, that last hit you have to take is a crit. I read someplace on this blog that "wave two is about stress." Disagree. Wave two is about crits. I love me some heavy gun with a merc copilot and marksmanship.
Heavy Laser Cannon changes all Critical Hits to (regular) Hits. It doesn't matter how they became Critical Hits, I.E. Mercenary Copilot or Marksmanship, they will change back to regular hits because that's how the HLC works. You're basically getting a missile that never goes away and you don't need a target lock to use it. The only downside is that it can't Crit.
Sanguinary Priest said:
Picasso said:
Now I know a lot of people are running the math in this game and that is fine. I don't play that way. I also believe that if you don't roll three hits with a homing missile it is a fluke. You have a reroll. I roll two hits almost all the time with them and then pick up one or two more with the reroll. That happening four times in a row to a Falcon is going to bring it close to death if not death. Also if you get a little lucky and get some crits Poof!
How are you getting the reroll you're talking about? Han doesn't let you pick and choose your dice for the reroll.
Homing Missiles don't require you to spend the Target Lock to use the attack, so you still have it (Target Lock) to reroll on that same attack. Also, I think he's refering to a different ship using the Missiles,such as an A-Wing, not Han.
GeneralKentobi77 said:
Heavy Laser Cannon changes all Critical Hits to (regular) Hits. It doesn't matter how they became Critical Hits, I.E. Mercenary Copilot or Marksmanship, they will change back to regular hits because that's how the HLC works. You're basically getting a missile that never goes away and you don't need a target lock to use it. The only downside is that it can't Crit.
Are you sure it happens in this order? We've been playing it that the HLC turns hits to crits THEN Mercenary Copilot turns one back into a crit.
GeneralKentobi77 said:
Picasso said:
With what Hothie just stated, that is the best part of putting Marksmanship on Han, that last hit you have to take is a crit. I read someplace on this blog that "wave two is about stress." Disagree. Wave two is about crits. I love me some heavy gun with a merc copilot and marksmanship.
Heavy Laser Cannon changes all Critical Hits to (regular) Hits. It doesn't matter how they became Critical Hits, I.E. Mercenary Copilot or Marksmanship, they will change back to regular hits because that's how the HLC works. You're basically getting a missile that never goes away and you don't need a target lock to use it. The only downside is that it can't Crit.
In the modifying attack dice step you can apply modifications to dice results in the order that you choose. As the attacker it's entirely legal to apply the HLC effect to your dice roll, then apply the mercenary gunner effect afterwards to change a {hit} to a {crit} result.
Source: Page 11 of the rulebook.