Hey all,

One of the big perks of being a Rogue Trade is that you are allowed to interact and deal with the Xeno. But, how is that handled on the other side of your trade route? Buying alien wares is all good and dandy, but whom are you selling them to? Most xeno technology seems forbidden and/or blasphemous so the authorities would take a dim view on you selling that stuff to imperial citizens. Of course, raw materials are no problem, but what other xeno wares can be sold legally? Do you have any guidelines?

I was thinking about this exact subject. I think Xenos wares are fine for selling as long as the arent being imported into the imperium but smuggling items in or selling them to cold traders is a definate way of getting more prfoit than making legal trasactions outside the borders of the imperium.

But thats just my opinion it isnt cannon or anything.

I think the Kasabasilica mission in Footfall (and port wander, too if I'm thinking correctly) tries their level best to buy up all things Xenos. their competitors do the same. so a Rogue Trader can hit footfall with a load of Xenos artifacts, sell it to one of the organizations that deals in that stuff and walk away clean. no muss, no fuss and doesn't have to worry about the details of what happens next.

also - most humans won't know if something is Xenos make. ignorance is bliss, remember? as long as something isn't obviously creepy, weird or psychic odds are most humans won't know anything about Xenos gear or items. it'll be different tho, which is a whole other issue. but if you sell it properly you might convince someone they aren't buying xenos items, its really just some very very strange archeotech.

Yeah, selling in Footfall would be rather easy, as long as you always remember to bring serious looking men with bolters.

But the thing is: The Imperium sanctions Rogue Traders OFFICIALLY to deal with Xenos. So there must be stuff one can officially sell within the Imperium. Without backroom deals, or passing it off as archaeotech. But what could it be?

Would selling Xenotech to a Magos Xenologis be legal?

Definately as long as the Magos isn't a heretic.

Also, some Xenotech isn't proscribed. Digiweapons, for example, are exclusively imported from the Jokeareo space monkey population.

eBarbarossa said:

hmm.

well, at a guess I'd say that high ranking members of imperial society could legally purchase Xenos gear (so long as it wasn't TOO offensive and/or blatantly obvious). Generals of the Imperial guard, various and sundry nobility, trading cartels looking to seem more impressive/fearsome. Members of the adeptus mechanicus looking to rip apart Xenos gear to learn it's secrets and/or figure out how to destroy it's makers easier. the Imperial Inquisition might want to legally aquire Xenos tech for all sorts of reasons that don't bear thinking about. Then of course there's illegal cultists who might arrange to legal purchase Xenos items for their nefarious purposes - after all, why steal it when you can just BUY it? set up a shell corporation, buy your various required items legally…and then disappear forever.

eBarbarossa said:

Find the right (wrong?) members of the Inquisition who are radical enough to believe that the weapons of the enemies of mankind should be used against their creators, or Heretek Adeptus Mechanicus who seek to study their technology to see how it could be made complaint with STC patterns.

Although Rogue Traders have the legal right to DEAL with Xenos, that doesn't mean they have the right to bring potentially hazardous technology back to Imperial space. I think there's no legal market for xenotech in the Imperium because anything they make is inferior and/or heretical when compared to good man-made technology.

Erathia said:

See and that doesn't make sense.

"You are allowed to buy Xenos stuff on behalf of the Imperium, but you won't be able to sell it. And why? Because we're eeeeeeevul dogmatics, that's why!" That just doesn't cut it for me.

It might be a means to an end, so to speak.

I believe that the point is to trade xenotech with those willing to buy it outside the Imperium to aquire favours, objects and the like that ARE legal and highly sought after by the Imperium or somebody in it. Obviously, selling to Ordo Xenos or a Magos Xenologis would be perfectly legal (although I envy your contacts if Ordo Xenos buy stuff from you). You could trade that tech with a mercenary group as payment for their help in purging an ancient human city, where you get the dibs on all the cool stuff, or you trade an eldar tech for a document detailing the location of something or other.

Then, of course, there are the illegal markets, but that is not the subject of this thread.

I would imagine that there'd be a legal blockage in the fact that while selling to the Inquisitoon and Magos Xenologis is legal, just being in possession of it within Imperial space is not. I would imagine you'd still have to smuggle the goods to a forge world in order to "legally" sell it. Well, either that or arrange for the Magos to come personally pick it up outside Imperial space, which I doubt the Magos would consider that unless it is very valuable.

from my understanding; so long as the authority don't find Xenotech in your cargo hold, you're good to go.

It might also be that being allowed to "Deal" with them means speaking with them and negoitating with them, not necesarrily buying their technology.

http://buttersafe.com/2011/11/17/gold-planet/

eBarbarossa said:

Except that is the in-universe explanation for 40K. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim and dark future, there is only war. Rogue Traders are meant to make contact with Xenos races, assess them as a threat to the Imperium (possibly through posthumous examination of the Rogue Trader's shattered hulk of a vessel), and then categorize whether or not they need to be wiped out immediately, or just sort of ignored and dealt with when the Navy has a moment.

Now there are a lot of radical Inquisitors, bored nobles and AdMech who will happily buy things from you, but they're not going to blatantly advertise that's what they're doing. The only real place where you can find a market where selling these things doesn't get you executed on site would be a place like the Koronus Expanse which is not technically Imperial Space. Even then though, you might face some pointed questions when you come back if you're viewed as having gone native.

The place where xenos technology is openly traded, analyzed and discussed is the Tau Empire. There are hints that there's a portal to the Eastern Fringe somewhere in the Koronus Expanse, so if you find that you could probably set up a market over there as well.

You wouldnt have to got hat far at all. The Kronus expanse is like the wild west, it is wilderness space the imperium can't enforce it so they allow private intrests to develop it and assess it thus rogue traders. Since your not in the imperium xenos technology is not proscribed and you dont have to worry about being prosecuted at all.

This is why rogue traders are seen as dangerous by the rest of imperial society, while their brining the light of the emperor into the darkness they come into contact with dangerous and blasphemous things. This is accepteable because as their warrant states they act as the voice of the emperor byond his realm and they can do what ever they see fit while their out there.

This is also why rogue trader wars are technicly legal as well. Their petty squables are ignored by the imperium because it doesn't have the resources to enforce the areas of space the rogue traders operate in.

Legal trading of xenos good can defniately take place just so longa as you dotn bring it to any imperial controlled planet so damaris is a no go. But footfall or the breaking docks are fine. In fact higher lelvels of imperial society proabbly like things this ay sincce it encourages development without any cost to the imperium itself. By keeping illegal goods proscribed from imperial space it protects citizens from corruption while simulatneously forcing rogue traders out into undeveloped regions.

If you have access to it, I recommend reading the cold trade section of Hostile Acquisitions. It addresses warrants that allow for trading with xenos.

Apparently it is legal for a RT who's warrant specifically states it, to sell xenos artifacts within the boarders of the imperium. It just that the trade is so profitable that those traders who's warrant does not allow them to to risk sanction.

HOWEVER, the inquisition will keep a close eye on any traders importing xenos artifacts, regardless of their warrant and will intervene if they deem the artifacts to be too heretical.

You can also do the "chain of deals" system. Buying from Xenos A to sell to Xenos B in exchange for something for Xenos C, who have something that is legal in the Imperium (promethium, radioactives, gems, etc.) as long as it's not of xenos manufacture, as opposed to xenos sourced, it should be fine. The Inquisition might even see the humor in blowing up a xenos society with weapons made from the material they sold to the RT and thence to the Imperium.

To fully understand how all this works, you have to understand the cyclopean beaurocracy of the Imperium of Man. Think about how Inquisitors operate. The Inquisitorial Remit gives the Inquisition the power to act as a self governing body answerable only to itself and the God Emperor of Mankind. This gives them authority that rises even above the central governing body of the Adeptus Terra itself. This gives each Inquisitor tremendous power that, officially speaking, not even a High Lord of Terra can refuse.

The key phrase here is 'officially speaking'.

In reality, there are multitudes of overlapping authorities that turns Imperial governance into a contradictory mess. Inquisitors have the official authority to investigate powerful members of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Novis Nobilite, or the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, but remember that the very function of the Imperium relies on these organizations. Thus, these indiividual organizations all have incredible amounts of leverage and power in their own right. In addition, the order of one Inquisitor can come into conflict with the order of another, and the same is true of whole Ordos or Conclaves of Inquisitors. Though some might disagree, I have personally always considered the Imperium to be a very specific statement about the nature of political beaurocracy in the real world. Multitudes of agencies all given extreme authority that often overlaps and conflicts. Two Inquisitors can consider each other heretical, go to war with one another, dragging millions and millions of soldiers from multiple planets into the conflict, and neither one is doing anything illegal.

Then we focus on the crux of this forum and post: Rogue Traders. The are legally given the authority to act outside the bounds of Imperial Law. Think about that for a moment: The legal right to act illegally…This is an inherent and intentional contradiction, just like everything else in the Imperium. It functions much like the way espionage works in the real world. If you think about it, a spy is legally impowered by his government to break international law. The spy acts on behalf of his government, but if he gets caught on enemy territory he is the one responsible for getting himself out of it. His government will not intercede if he gets caught breaking a law that his government cant afford to get caught breaking.

In the end what this means is that a Rogue Trader has the authority to break the law, but he alone is responsible for inforcing that authority. The Warrant gives him the power to deal with an Inquisitor as a peer. On the surface this means they have equal authority, but the question is who has the most influence and power? Is this Inquisitor acting alone, or on behalf of a greater conclave? Is the Rogue Trader acting alone, or on behalf of a vast and powerful Dynasty that the lone Inquistor doesn't have the resources to deal with?

Things in the Imperium are never simple.

fulcan said:

At this point Id escort the Inquisitor to a private meeting on my ship, then promptly seal the void lock behind him And of course, it depends on whos got the bigger ship/fleet

This is a pretty interesting discussion we have going on here!

I personally would say that in a location such as the Koronus Expanse, most anything COULD be "legal" to sell. But I think it depends on the way you are running your campaign and the circumstances you have put in it.

For example, the way I am running my RT campaign is that there are some planets where there are governors who couldn't really care less about the legality of products sold to them or their empire, while there are others that are staunch fundamentalist followers of the Imperial Creed.

However, I also have an Inquisitor running around the Expanse at the moment which could change things. So, I think if my RT team decided to sell a simple xenos crop enhancement to a planetary government official I would say the Inquisitor would find that fairly benign. But, if they decided to sell a large xenos warship to a planetary governor who plans on using it to help invade another nearby imperial planet, the Inquisitor would most definitely see that as a gross misuse of my player's Warrant of Trade.

Personally, I think it depends on the circumstances.

Without reading anyone else reply, I will add my 2 thrones worth.

Any Xeno gear you find you can always sell to the Inquisition or adeptus mechanicus for Profit Factor. There’s plenty of examples of it in some of the Rogue Trader published adventures.

And as long as you are beyond the boundaries of the Imperium you are allowed to trade with and sell goods to Xeno cultures. Most Warrants do allow this.

Furthermore, if you really dig deep in the fluff of Rogue Trader and what your Warrant allows, you are supposed to keep journals and records of all you plunder and acquire. And every X-years or every time you make port, you are required to submit a report of said items. This is when you technically acquire your Profit Factor.

Now, a bit of Lore if you will. Ive read a lot of 40k novels and what not, and what Ive noticed over the years is that the adeptus mechanicus really dont like to share thier secrets with anyone, not even with other adeptus mechanicus cults on other planets. So if you sold all your Xeno loot to them or to diffrent cults then you could make a killing in Profit.

Cpt. H

There have been a lot of interesting ideas in this thread, so I thought I would throw out a few more based on our campaign:

1) Utilize those items that are not Warp/Chaos tainted. Many Xeno weapons and some ship items are actually as good or superior to human made items. You allready have the goods, why go through the effort to get rare and potentially hard to find advanced weapons when you have them. The only real issue becomes Corruption and ammunition. I recomend hiring a number of Techsorocists to ensure that the devices are not likely to carry Warp taint.

2) Make a deal with an Inquisitor to release easily identifiable Xeno items of interest that are not truely dangerous so that they can try and track the Cold Trade. Note that you will have to be careful to avoid retaliation by the Cold Traders if this gets out. This gives you a way to make real profit from selling them, and a possible cover if you get caught.

3) Study those items that are technologically different but not Warp/Chaos tainted to better understand their technology and maybe work out ways to incorporate those things they do better into your own tech. It helps that we have two dedicated Hereteks who are both fully loyal to Humanity, if not the Imperium. If you can get your hands on Tau Pulse Rifles, they are relatively easy to produce copies too (Rare). They are overall better weapons than Plasma or Bolt weapons, and have the same ammunition cost. You just need to set up someplace to manufacture your copies and ammo. If you can make it look (cosmetically at least) like human equipment, even better.

4) Ork gear is crude and clunky, and therefore large. Stripping down their gear and smelting it into raw materials is a lot easier than mining it.

5) Make contacts with Malteks and Ad Mech researchers and trade Xeno gear for advanced equipment of a more acceptable bent.

Remember that your Warrant allows you to have and trade for Xeno equipment, which should protect you and your liegemen even in the expanse. But, there are those who will judge you for it anyway and make you life more difficult. If you start playing around with truely heretical equipment (Yu'vath or Chaos spawned stuff) you can expect that an Inquisitor or Assassin will be paying you a visit the next time you hit Port Wander. If you become a threat due to your dabbling, you may find yourself facing a Imperial Navy task force with orders to burn you down in your ship.

Lots of good replies and I think this second page has really hit the nail in the head.

One thing I would like to add is that I think Rogue Traders would still be somewhat responsible for who they sell it to. If you are providing Xenos gear for underworlders that then use it in an uprising and overthrow the local government and law agencies of a major Hive… well, there are going to be some questions as to who is to be held accountable.

The other thing I would like to point out is that even for people "above the law" like Inquisitors and Rogue Traders, dealing Xenos tech--or any tech--that is truly sentient will get you irrevocably labeled a Heretic. If a Rogue Trader needs to offload some of that stuff, they better find an extreme radical or someone already committed to heresy.

I think the physical and political realities of the Koronus passage should be taken into account when deciding just how much you make off the trade and how much risk it entails. For instance dumping a large lot of desireable Xenos crap at Footfall should be easy enough but not super profitable because whoever you're selling it to is likely going to have to organize a way for it to be discreetly hauled to Port Wander, and from there even more discreetly transported into the Imperium proper likely by even more middle men.

The realities of running a good cold trade would actually be pretty similar to modern drug running if you really think about it, the challenge isn't primarily in procuring or making the stuff once you've come up with a method for doing so, it's in effectively distributing it to potential customers without getting caught, without getting robbed by competing criminals and without your contacts trying to **** you over somehow. So I guess if I was going to run a cold trade endeavor adventure I'd likely start off by ripping off everything I know about the tv show Breaking Bad. Well unless the players just wanted to shift the crap at Footfall and be done with it.