from BoJ pg 71

So has anyone got rules for how long it takes for the effect takes place, and how how long it will last.

It says slowly- so I'd say an hour for it to start working.

As for how long it lasts- it says "Hours", so 2d10+2, [Min 4, more than "a few (1-3)" and max 22, less than a few day.)

That's my take it on it, but you'd need to ask the guys for an official answer.

Since Leatherwort is nakedly just a D&D magic potion with absolutely no reasonable justification within the 40Kverse (if it actually works, why isn't it standard issue for every single Imperial Guard unit/Inquisitor/Assassin/etc? How is it 'thematically' any different than, say, a Potion of Water Walking?), I don't allow it in my campaign. BoJ is, in my opinion, probably the worst written DH supplement, at least as far as equipment goes (a shotgun that dwarfs the damage of a boltgun?! A shield that adds 4 points to existing armour, thus rendering characters immune to standard weapons?!). This stuff is a GM's nightmare if one of your players is a min-maxing 'power gamer'…

To play devil's advocate- and even though, the more I think about it, the more I agree with you: the potion itself costs 115, for a single dose: which 2 times a guardsman's salary + tips. For the [relatively] measly protection it provides (getting hit by an ork or a tyranid is still goign to cripple a guardsman and make him relatively useless in battle…) it could simply not be worth it

For everybody else, I'd say its main problem is the same as everything else: its simply not subtle.

Alternatively, I'd say that it doesn't stack with armor unless the armor is customized [best quality].

Lathe Worlds has more power creep than Book of Judgement, though BoJ does have that wacky stuff in it. Also, it works better if you think of it as an Astartes shotgun adapted by the Arbites and compare it to the Astartes Bolter. Still no reason humans should be able to fire it with ease…

Hey, at least it isnt techies with psyker powers, infinite ammo strong guns and guardsmen who have amazing carapace, great weapons and super duper lathe knives as a PC

I'm playing a Crimson Guard with Leatherwort in her Chem Gland and, yeah, at 1st rank I felt sickeningly overpowered. I liked the concept and the background, but I had underestimated how broken the character could be. I knew I was going to be playing a powerful character, but when I fully read all of the mechanics of the Crimson Guard I was a little surprised. I wound up role-playing to my weaknesses and ignoring BS and WS advances in favor of buffing up intelligence, just to make the character work in the campaign. I haven't really taken many combat talents. With hindsight, I would highly recommend disallowing Crimson Guard for low rank play or remove some of their benefits (consider them still in training, so they won't get that shiny carapace armour or integrated weaponry until they rank up).

Leatherwort was less of a problem since I had paired it with a Chem Gland. I was failing most of my toughness tests to activate the leatherwort, so I was mostly causing myself fatigue instead of buffing my toughness and armour. Without a Chem Gland, I would rule that one dose is only enough for one hit location (the description of the drug could be read to imply this), so that to cover the entire body would cost 690 thrones. If I was gming, I would house rule its availability up to Very Rare and strictly enforce the addiction rules (I think they are in the Radical's Handbook?). As a player, I wouldn't take it again without the built in limitations of a Chem Gland.

The characters in our game are all around 6th rank now and the Crimson Guard is a much better fit, since most of the other characters have been able to acquire similarly powerful equipment by this time. I consider the Carapace armour to be the uniform of the Crimson Guard, so I haven't bothered to look for better armour.

I don't see how you could use Leatherwort in your Glands. It's not an injectable or imbibable drug, but a paste you spread on your skin.

But +2 AP? Really? So this is as efficient damage protection as Subskin Armour? Or a Light Flak Coat?

I think there is too much power creep in Book of Judgement and the Lathe Worlds. Things just get out of hand here …

Darth Smeg said:

Agreed. I'm not sure it's intentional power creep, though; I suspect that the writers are just struggling to come up with new stuff to fill pages, and end up letting game balance fall by the wayside…

Adeptus-B said:

I believe it's kind of a lame excuse… you can certainly write up Crimson Guard, and other unique stu without making it OP. And Wh40k worldi s so huge that they won't ever be done with writing it up for the RP.

Darth Smeg said:

In real life, drugs and medecines can be taken several different ways, so I didn't see anything wrong with imagining that the Adpetus Mechanicus came up with a way to apply the drug intravenously and neither did the gm. The end result was that it made the drug less effective, which was a good thing.

I just noticed another problem with Book of Judgement: the Verispex Adept. The ability "Seen This Before" lets you substitute an Intelligence skill test for any investigation test. The concept that a Verispex adept can be like a CSI guy or Sherlock Holmes seems really cool until you realize that all Lore skils are investigation skills. A Verispex gets the equivalent of training in every lore skill. Broken.

Whoops. Double Post. Please Remove.

For what it is worth we have the official answer:

Yo there Angel!

It takes effect within 30 minutes, and lasts 1d5+2 hours.

Hope this helps and thanks for playing!

Tim Huckelbery

RPG Producer

Fantasy Flight Games

which also explains why it not issued out to everyone all the time.

The equipment in Lathe Worlds is at least justified in that it is Adeptus Mechanicus artifacts. Though it says something about the power level that I have found more use for it in my Deathwatch campaign.

Leatherwork is a bit daft really, though I admit I shamelessly use it to beef up my NPC's durability while making it surprisingly difficult for my PCs to acquire.

For what it is worth we have the official answer:

Yo there Angel!

It takes effect within 30 minutes, and lasts 1d5+2 hours.

Hope this helps and thanks for playing!

Tim Huckelbery

RPG Producer

Fantasy Flight Games

which also explains why it not issued out to everyone all the time.

This makes it 10% less offensive...