It's pretty much "agreed" that the next wave is going to be the Bomber and the B, but I am wondering what will they DO once they reach combat. I don't immediately see what attack ships can add to a dogfight unless they are there to perform a mission, like destroying a big target.

Is there a place in x-wing for this kind of ships? Are they there only to destroy the middle sized ships or are they capable of dogfighting? Or will there be more missions of the destroy designated target to justify their entry to the game? Maybe a combination? What are your thoughts on this?

I’m currently working on a BIG target for a squad or two of TIE BOMBERS.

I can see the TIE Bomber being similar to the Y-Wing, slower than the other TIEs and capable of taking 2 missiles.

Not so sure about the B-Wing. Maybe closer to an X-WIng that can take two torpedos instead of an Astromech?

Maybe stats on the B-Wing like Attack: 2, Agility: 3, Hull: 3, Shield: 2, Options: 2 Torpedos, Ion Turret

DingusFett said:

Most people (including me) tend to think that these ships are only variants of the Y-wing. If this is the case, what do they add to the game besides a new face? My hunch is not so much. So IF these two ships make up wave 3, what do you think FFG have come up with to expand the gameplay? Missions with hard to kill targets and vulnerable attack ships, or two ships with fighter capabililties? As a game developer you often decide what role your piece is supposed to fit before you come up whith statlines and maneuver template, I'm interested how FFG intend us to use these two ships.

I would think FFG would need to add more rules for "bomber" or "gunboat" style craft. Wave 2 gave boost to the interceptors, Wave 3 could give 'strafing run' or something similar. Letting the ships fire a secondary weapon as an action if they made a green (or straight?) movement, and then giving capacity for 4 missiles for the Bomber or an ion cannon and a couple torpedos to the B-Wing could make them useful hammers that wouldn't be too easy to use. You'd still need a target lock for the missiles, so either a squad would have to be built around them to give locks/actions (Lando, Dutch, Squad Leader, etc), or they would be a centerpiece that would need to be escorted/protected for a couple turns before they get their payload off. If costed properly they could add a new dynamic, and possibly be a strong counter to the medium sized ships.

If it was just a Y-Wing with more missiles and nothing fancy or different I probably wouldn't even bother. I have problems enough as it is getting one shot off from Proton Torpedos and having it matter, let alone 2 or 3.

The TIE Bomber is going to be the Proton Torpedo carrier for the Empire, just as A-Wings introduced missiles to the Rebels. I'd also wager a guess that TIE bombers will carry the BOMB upgrade slot so they can also deploy proxemity mines, seismic charges, and perhaps Proton Bombs as a new direct-fire attack ability with the bomb upgrade slot. Alternatively we could see new Torpedo upgrades come out of the TIE bomber. Bombers with the Bomb upgrade might introduce the tactic of locking off large parts of the battlefield by dropping mines while closing on the enemy. I'm also personally wishing for the ability to give Bombers concussion missiles as well, making them the ultimate ordinance carriers even if they're only hull 3-5.

The B-Wing will also be another Torpedo carrier but probably give the CANNON upgrade to the Rebels, so it can carry a cannon slot (unless FFG wants to limit this only to large ships?). I think the B-Wing will maximize on Firewpower and defense but be very limited on dodge. The B-Wing may introduce a new cannon type, the Autoblaster, to flesh out more cannon types. Might also come with an Ion cannon too.

Mosedeke said:

I agree with this concept a lot.

Here is what i'm envisioning for stats:

B-Wing - Standard base size

Maneuver Dial: Hybrid cross between a Firespray 31 and a Y-wing (4 ahead is a white manuver, like the FS, but turns like a Y-wing)

Stats I'm thinking are around 3 / 1 / 4 / 5…

Action Bar: Focus & Target Lock

Base Pilot Skill of 3 @ 24 points (+/- 2 points) with named Elite Pilots escalating in Pilot Skill and Point Cost.

Upgrade Bar: Proton Torps x 2, Missiles x 2, Ion Cannon, Heavy Laser Canon, and Crew Member *(yeah, think about Weapons Engineer here).

Something allowing a secondary weapon shot as an action if a green or straight manuver is made (as per above)… Maybe an Advanced Targeting / Fire control computer…? B-wings have Nav/Fire Control/Sensor systems intended for small Capital Class ships according to Wookieepedia.

The tough call is whether or not its stats and size justify a Large Ship Base, but after comparing sizes of the B-wing and other ships, Ive found its not that much bigger than a Y-Wing, so I would think it would go on a "Standard" Ship Base in an upright configuration with S-Foils deployed.

TIE Bomber - Standard base size

Maneuver Dial: Like a Y-Wing but 4 straight ahead is a white manuver instead of red.

Stats: 2 / 2 / 4 / 0

Action Bar of: Focus, Target Lock, Evade.

Base Pilot Skill of 2 @ 19 Points (+/- 2 points), with named Elite Pilots escalating in Pilot Skill and Point Cost.

Upgrade Bar: Proton Torps x 2, Missiles x 2, Bomb x 2.

Special… Something allowing a single Bomb to be deployed as an action if a straight manuver is made… as above, but only straight manuvers.

I'm really envisioning both ships as Ordanance Carriers with lots of flexability on weapon upgrades and load out. The B-wing is able to target enemy ships better, but still suffering from very poor manuverability, and the Tie Bomber is really a slightly more resiliant, but less manouverable TIE with an unsurpassed bombing abilities. With the use of a special ability of some sort allowing a secondary weapon shot or dropping a bomb, I think these two ships would really add to the game without making existing ships obsolete (exception being the Y-wing that the B-Wing was intended to replace anyway, but the Y-Wing would still retains the 360 Ion turret and lower cost so it would still have a place as a support ship).

Comments?

Mosedeke said:

These are some excellent ideas in here. I agree that they will have to introduce some new mechanics if they are to make these ships interesting. I like the idea of the 'strafing run.' This would surely lead to some really great missions/scenarios.

I would prefer the B-Wing was horizontal on its base. I don't care for the way it looks standing up. What do the rest of you think?

I suspect that the B-wing will be a bulky ship who's shields and hull put it between a Y-wing and a YT-1300. It will have the attack profile of the X-wing, Torpedo capasity of a Y-wing, and be slow as dirt. But, it will also be able to take a cannon upgrade.

The Tie Bomber will probably be the same speed as the Y-wing but will have more hull points then your average Tie. Besides being able to take more missiles then the Tie Advance, it will also be able to take a bomb upgrade.

I am hesitant to speculate on exact numbers because I could see how some things could go left or right around a set number. For example imagine the hull and shields for our theoretical B-wing. It could be 6 Hull/4 Shield, 5 Hull/5 Shield, or 4 Hull/6 Shield. That is based on the B-wing being able to take 10 hits, which it may not. We willl just have to wait and see what FFG has in store for us.

I would like to see the B-wing rotate on the base or at least be able to go on base in horizontal or vertical orientation. I would like to see Tie Bombers capable of deploying mind fields in space or bombing ground targets.

I'm interested to see if the Bomber will be able to Barrel Roll like the rest of the TIEs.

I did a thread some time back about boarding and support craft and how they could reload the bombers. This would give the fighters something to defend or attack. Now all we need is a big target for those bombers.

Just a thought.

Mosedeke said:

These are great ideas. A strafing run mission (or a coulple) would add variety to the game as well as a place for this kind of ships. It would also add a new use for the Y-wing fitted with double torpedoes. Lastly it will be most interesting to find out what ships are the best escorts, since it will be a key part of the mission to make sure the bombers reach their target.

Boomer_J said:

This would be a fine example of a strafing mission in two ways - the reloaded bombers hitting their target for the second (or third) time, and the defending bombers trying to take out the support craft.

If FFG decides to follow this path I surely look forward to playing with these ships!

Utimately the bomber and B-wing roles are dependant on the direction of the game. As of yet, the game is primarily dog-fighting with the scenarios being somewhat weak. Assuming FF does go the route the majority seem to think, there will likely be some sort of objective based missions around the same time. Bombers just aren't that useful in a dogfight unless the missle weapons really make up for it. You can't drop the points for them because they are specific role fillers. In the furball not so good, but awesome against capitol ships, installations, and such.

A futher argument for these types of add-ins to the game is stagnation. The 100 point 1 on 1 dogfight is fun, for now. What you will likely see is the tuning of lists to where there will be 4 or 5 for each side with a tiny bit of variation. The same thing happens to any game when you don't provide some sort of objective based scenario and it is just a 'see how many points you can kill' game.

Besides, if FF doesn't, any number of fans will to keep the game fresh and moving forward. My group already is working on those so we have a decent aount available for the convention and tournament games we are going to run this year.

Redbranch said:

I think the B-wing could be set at a 45-degree angle, with the cockpit at the upper-left, would be alright to me.

Norsehound said:

My thoughts exactly. The TIE bomber has to carry bombs (that's a no-brainer) or perhaps mines, and I think after seeing that anime styled TIE fighter video, we all want a TIE bomber to be able to carry missiles. But I think also agree that the TIE bomber is a great way to get Proton Torpedoes into Imperial squads. Maybe we'll see Heavy Rockets that fit into the "torpedo" slot.

I agree that the B-wing ought to have access to the Slave I expansion's Ion Cannon, so why not the Heavy Laser Cannon, and a new variety of cannon?

All excellent thoughts, Norsehound!

Delta Echo said:

You don't think it's going to have shields at all? I'd think they'd want a little protection for all that ordinance sitting inside of it.

DailyRich said:

You'd think so, but per the Star Wars canon the TIE bomber does not have shields.

I think that the only TIE with shields is the TIE Advanced, others don't have shileds, in the history, the Empire don't think it has to be necesary for the pilots, the ships even has Life support, greettings.

I think the Tie Bomber will be pretty close to a TIE, some less moves on the dial and torp/bomb upgrades. Maybe another hull…

B-Wing… I would assume it would be somewhere between a y-wing and x-wing with a turret or cannon upgrade slot.

The tie defender has shields. Very expensive ship

As with most things, Id defer to the TIE Fighter PC game way of displaying fighters: Cockpit at the top, cruciform arrangement. Easiest to package IMO.

Only Elite TIES of the Empire had shields. Since these fighters were costly to produce anyway, shields came standard equipped. Of course these shielded fighters were also particularly deadly in the hands of aces. TIE Avengers (TIE Advanced X5?), TIE Defdenders, and a few other specialized TIE Models were equipped with shields. For a time though, Admirals Zaarin and Thrawn equipped some of their normal TIEs with shields, particularly interceptors. With shield modifications now we can simulate this sort of.

For the way I'm imagining the Bomber I can see it offering a unique position in the game. It's a glass cannon… flinging proton torpedoes and other deadly ordinance but not having the hit points to stay in the game as long as the Y-Wing can. Combined with the ability to drop bombs, the TIE Bomber might be a smaller and chaper Firespray but with more slots given to warheads. We've seen similar transitions… the Falcon is a bigger Y-Wing that does the concept better.

To field these Bombers effectively you'd need a screen of TIEs or another kind of fighter to draw fire from them while the Bombers engaged at long range. They won't do well on their own at close range, but left alone they could probably pop a number of Rebel fighters from a distance. In fact, I wonder if I should try the double-torp strategy with Y-Wings now…

The B-Wng will probably have high health, high attack, but also Dodge 1. So unlike the Y-Wing which wallows about and fires an ion cannon once and again, the B-Wing comes equipped with dangerous natural guns and a cannon upgrade to enhance their attacks. They'd be high profile targets but can't evade a lot of the fire coming in their direction… and would probably be just as hated as the TIE Bombers for how deadly they can be if left alone. B-Wings might also lack K-Turns and quick turns so that they'd have a hard time positioning against more nimble enemies.

My take on the TIE bomber and B-Wing:

TIE Bomber 16 points base

A2 D2 H5 S0 Focus/Target Lock/Barrel Roll

Upgrades: Warhead/Warhead/Bomb Warhead would be an upgrade slot that allows either missiles or torpedoes.

Manuever dial similar to Y-Wing but NO Koirigan turn

Pilots:

Skill 1 Beta Squadron Bomber 16

Skill 3 Gamma Squadron Bomber 18

Skill 4 Scimitar Squadron TIE 20 Add 1 vet upgrade slot

Skill 5 Captain Jonus 21 Other pilots may use his target lock

Skill 5 Major Rymer 23 Add 1 vet upgrade May generate target lock as a free action against fighter he just fired at.

Skill 6 "Deathfire McDibbs 25 Add 1 vet upgrade slot May fire primary AND secondary weapon in a turn

Heavy Rocket Cost 4 (Torpedo) Range 1-2. 4 Attack dice. Change all hits to crits.

Countermeasure Launcher Cost 2 (Modification). May discard to gain 1 evade token for remainder of the turn

B-Wing 22 points base

A3 D2 H4 S4 Focus/Target Lock/Barrel Roll

Upgrades: Torpedo/Torpedo/Heavy Cannon

Manuever dial similar to X-Wing but NO Koirigan turn.

Pilots:

Skill 2 Shantipole Prototype 22

Skill 4 Blue Squadron Pilot 24

Skill 5 Ten Numb 25 Add 1 vet upgrade, pilot ability

Skill 7 Keyan Farlander 27 Add 1 vet upgrade, pilot ability

Autoblaster Cost 4 (Heavy Cannon) Range 2-3. 3 Attack Dice, may fire twice. Change Crits to normal hits.

Expanded Cockpit Cost 2 (Modification) Reduce Evade/Defence value by 1, add Pilot upgrade slot.

That is fantastic. I'm going to try these out tomorrow.