jetsetter said:

No, it loses the stealth when it is "Hit." Being Hit and being Damaged are not the same thing. You would also not lose the stealth device if you took damage from proximity mine, an asteroid, or splash from assault missile.

That's what I figured.

It looks like this question is getting conflicting answers.

How do we expedite this question to get an official ruling on this

The problem.

A proximity mine template is placed partially under a ships base such that if the ship were to execute a manneuver the maneuver template would not touch the mine template. Does the mine detonate when the ship moves as the base already overlaps the token.

The proximity mine card

“When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps this token, this token detonates”

Page 7 of the rule book

“Execute Maneuver: Holding the template firmly in place, grip the side walls of the base and lift the ship off the play surface.

Then place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the opposite end of the template.”

Opinion 1: As the base is on the mine token when the maneuver starts, it detonates.

Opinion 2: As you take the ship off the table to execute your maneuver, it does not detonate.

If the mine is treated as an obstacle (not specified anywhere) then opinion 2 would be correct as per the FAQ

FAQ 1.1 : Overlapping

Q: If a ship’s base overlaps an obstacle during the previous round,

is that ship automatically considered overlapping the same obstacle during the next round?

A: No. The ship does not move through or overlap that same obstacle

unless the maneuver template it is using or its base after executing the maneuver overlap that obstacle again during the next round.

I saw this issue in the weekend where slave 1 flew almost head to head with the Falcon, flew past, dropped the proximity mine at the end of its movement so part of the token rested under the rear end of the Falcons base. At the time it was ruled that the mine detonated as soon as the falcon started it’s next maneuver with no chance to evade because we could find no reference to the mine being an obstacle. Not sure if it was the correct ruling at the time.

A careful rereading of the thread will reveal that this situation has been discussed - it is described in Scenario C of the original post. Early opinions were expressed that the mine would be set off in this situation, but subsequent discussion revealed that this was probably not the case, and the mine would not be set off. In the absence of an official ruling, this conclusion was arrived at by treating them like obstacles, which they resemble in many ways. The most reasonable interpretation was reached by applying the ruling that you quote from the FAQ on overlapping obstacles during the following round, chiefly the part about the base only counting after the maneuver. This interpretation is also supported by the core movement rules, where it is only the position of the base at the end of the move that counts.

There will probably not be a statement that "Proximity mines are obstacles", because that would involve rolling for even more damage, and losing an action as well. As it is we have used the closest thing we can find in the game to try to figure out how they work until a definitive ruling is made. I could actually see it going the other way, and the Prox Mine detonating when a ship begins its movement with its base overlapping the mine. But without official word we cannot know for sure.

As for expediting the question, has anyone here submitted it to FFG? There has been nothing but silence from the rules folks lately, and there are several somewhat contentious questions regarding certain Wave 2 combinations that need to be answered. FAQ 1.1 contains nothing that is Wave 2 specific. I am hopeful that the absence of rulings means they are getting ready to release the next FAQ, which will address difficult questions like this one. I am further hopeful that it will come out this week, before the Regionals Season officially begins on Saturday. Otherwise there is likely to be a lot of "local interpretation" for the competitions.

Proximity Mine Card:

"When a ship executes amaneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps this token, this token detonates."

In Dropping a Bomb Token in p. 2 of the Slave 1 rulesheet

"If a bomb token is dropped on a ship, it is placed under the the ships base. The bomb does not immediately detonate and must follow these rules and restrictions."

Under Overlapping Other Ships p 17

"If a ship executes a maneuver that would cause the final position of its base to physically overlap another ship's base (even partially),…"

Under Obstacles p. 20

"When a ship executes a maneuver in which either the maneuver template or the ship's base physically overlaps an obstacle token,…

later on its states

" When overlapping an obstacle token, the ship stays where it lands (on top of the token)."

I can see where the grey area has come from. In all instances of overlapping it is assumed to have happend after a maneuver, not before. With bomb deployment, you get the possibility of an overlap like instance before a maneuver is even selected. But the rules for overlapping ship or obstacles happens after you have done a maneuver.

So the question becomes:

Can you be in an overlapping state, before you have performed a maneuver, with a bomb token?

Sergovan said:

This is the most succinct summary of the question I've seen.

In this case I'd argue that the precedent has been set by the FAQ rergarding obstacles:

Q: If a ship’s base overlaps an obstacle
during the previous round, is that ship
automatically considered overlapping the
same obstacle during the next round?
A: No. The ship does not move through or overlap that
same obstacle unless the maneuver template it is
using or its base after executing the maneuver
overlap that obstacle again during the next round.

So, for obstacles it is NOT considered overlap before you have performed a maneuver. We know that mines are not defined as obstacles (and probably won't be), but they are closely related to obstacles in other respects. Until an official ruling is made, I guess it comes down to agreeing how to play it ahead of time. If your group plays a "least restrictive" style you'll probably opt for no overlap, no detonation. If you tend to play "most restrictive", then you'll likely go for the starting overlap & therefore detonation before the offending ship moves, but definitely not immediately upon placement.

I can honestly see this going either way, since the beginning overlap could be defined to occur for Bombs without nerfing the above ruling for obstacles. It will be interesting to see how this ultimately goes.

Scenario A) The x-wing moves and his movement template never touches the mine template but the base of the ship stand does partially travel over it and ends still partially overlapping it.

Scenario C) Same as scenario A but the ship starts out allready touching the mine template, obviously the only way for this to happen is if only the back of the ship is already on the template.

Its scenario c that seems to be the scenerio c that people disagree on, I intialy said yes it goes boom, not becasue of the fact that it starts out touching the mine but becacuse in scenerio C it ends up partialy overlpaping as in scenerio A.

they way this would most likly come up during a game is slave 1 drops a bomb ontop of another player who is behind slave one before moving and then its the players turn to move who stated out behind slave one but im not sure if this would actiualy be possible with the bases unless it was a large ship.

so unless it is possible then C there is no boom and sorry for the confusion. But if it is possible then Boom becasue its overlapping after moving.

When this came up in a game I played it was almost a head to head run. Falcon moved forward, then slave 1 did a gentle turn ending up behind the falcon with their backs to each other.

The proximity token got placed with a small part of it resting under the rear of the falcons base.

overlapping update was sent to me via e-mail from FFG. You can start on a mine token and not set it off. It isn't until you move and the template or base overlapps it that cause it to go off.

Fantasy Flight Games

It's nice to get an official response!

I also recieved a response to my question - related to this topic

Hello Joseph,

Is a proximity mine or a seismic charge considered an obstacle?

(When dropped to be overlapping a ship that has yet to move in the movement phase, does the mine explode - or like an obstacle, does it not count?)

Bomb tokens do not count as obstacles, so they do not cause your ship to lose its attack, obstruct attacks, etc.

As with obstacles, a ship that has yet to move and is already overlapping a Proximity Mine token won't cause that token to detonate unless its maneuver template or the new position of the ship overlap the token.

Thanks for playing!

James Kniffen

Associate Game Designer

I would like to mention, as I did not see it corrected in this thread, that the movement guides on a bomb/mine template *are* factored into figuring overlap. (as per FAQ/Errata page 2)

If I'm correct, the entire area of the bomb/mine is considered for range measurement...I will try to find the verbiage.

Straight from the FAQ, pg 2:

Q: Are a bomb token’s movement guides considered when measuring range or when a ship overlaps them?

A: Yes

Hi, I was thinking about a rare case when more ships with the same piloting skills overlap a proximity mine. WDYT?

Hi, I was thinking about a rare case when more ships with the same piloting skills overlap a proximity mine. WDYT?

If they're controlled by different players, the player with Initiative will be the one whose ship sets off the proximity mine. If they're controlled by the same player, then that player gets to choose which order his ships move and thus which one sets off the mine.

Same pilot skill or not, ships move one at a time.

Q: Are a bomb token’s movement guides considered when measuring range or when a ship overlaps them? A: Yes.

So to answer the new question asked by inmyer yes they bomn movement guides are counted as running over them as per the faq