I played a few games yesterday at my local game store (Which I will make another topic in organized play about) and I played imperials both times, while I wanted to play the Rebels, so did my brother and my friend, and I threw together new imperial teams (Slave 1, interceptor, and a fighter, next game Slave with 2 interceptors). I lost both games, which is to be expected since the strategies I were making for wave 2 had to do with Rebel side.

However a question that came to me and my X-wing crew was, is the Falcon overpowered? Or is it just what Rebels needed to keep up with imperial swarm?

With such a high attack power, and a 360 degree firing arc, one could argue the fact that the millennium falcon is overpowered. Adding Marksmanship to your millennium falcon and using it as your action is just incredible. TIE Fighters and TIE interceptors have high agility yes, but their lack of shields, and low hull makes them easy to kill in 1 shot with the falcon. If they don't roll a single evade, and didn't use focus or free evade action, they are pretty much doomed by the falcons high powered shots.

However it seems to make up for it's exemplary firing power, in it's lack of agility. While the YT-1300 only has 1 agility, it still has 5 shields, and 8 Hull, making it a massive tank. It is easy to go past enemies, or let them fly past you, and shoot them down anywhere in a 360 angle from your ship to destroy them fast.

While the ship still costs nearly half (if a unique pilot) of a players points to use, they can still get 2-3 other ships depending on the upgrades and pilots they use, making a rebel have almost a mini-swarm, with a huge tank to take the fire.

One thing that I think I have noticed as well, is the Slave 1 can not keep up with the millennium falcon. While it may cost less, it also has less shield and hull, and has the same amount of firing power, while only giving it one additional agility point. Yes the Slave can be upgraded a lot, however doing this will cause it to cost just as much as the falcon and take up WAY to much space on an imperial players team. Adding the slave 1 to an imperial players team is only good in an imperial mirror match, and while facing a rebel player will be ultimately useless. The millennium falcons 360 degree firing arc, destroys the auxilary arc of the of slave 1. While being able to shoot either direction is absolutely great, it almost feels like it's just a good option if it's the last ship you have left, and you're trying to run away. Based on the turrets on the millennium falcon, I believe it too should have had an auxilary arc, rather than a 360 degree arc.

When facing a player with a millennium falcon, it almost feels having a high level swarm (Darth vader + swarm tactic TIE fighters) seems required. The cost of interceptors are way to high for any swarm capabilities (costing 21 for a pilot upgradable interceptor, while it is only 14 for a TIE)

Maybe I am playing wrong, and I am doing more games potentially tomorrow, tuesday, and maybe saturday as well, and I will be back to share more thoughts on the subject.

only time will tell, but i don't believe the falcon or the slave 1 bring anything super special to competitive lists.. more just for showboating

the "Boost" to the rebels that was needed was the A-wing, that little interceptor is a beautiful and well designed craft that gives the rebels the speed and manuverability needed and can still pack a punch enough to get the job done

i think the Tie Interceptors are going to prove very quickly that they are not anything super special, and though they will find their place in many lists; I believe they will sit with a max of 1-2 per competitive list as they bring too much heat for too much of a cost.. they are just tie fighters after all and they die just as fast. I believe they will just be in the list long enough to keep your opponent off of howlrunner for a couple of turns due to the larger threat of more attack dice.

i see Turr Phenur (not sure I spelled that correctly) as being the most played and most competitive interceptor due to his unique and cool pilot ability

Harleequin said:

I honestly can't say whether or not the Falcon is OP at this point. I don't think anyone really can as we've simply not played enough games with it to really honestly make that statement, so take all of the following for what it's worth.

My gut instinct is that it isn't OP, it's just very easy to use effectively, and that accessibility makes it seem OP. Kinda like TIE Swarms were in Wave 1. Could be wrong, of course.

Conversely, I don't think the Firespray is as accessible and easy to use as the Falcon (or standard TIEs or TIE Interceptors), and as such, it's getting a rep for being underpowered. Again, my gut instinct is it isn't underpowered, it's just a little more difficult to use and people are perceiving it as being underpowered.

You mention the high hull and shields of the YT-1300, but it only has one agility die. Sure, you can take Evade if you take the Falcon title, but still- a YT is going to take hits sooner or later. A couple of ships with Missiles of pretty much any sort ought to seriously whittle those numbers down very quickly. I don't feel the YT has the maneuvers available to get away from cage opponents and if you take a few precautionary upgrades/ Actions/ whatever to try and mitigate some of that turret damage, I don't think she's quite as invulnerable and OP as she may seem right now.

I think the YT changes the way a lot of Imperial players have been successfully moving and maneuvering their lists. Setting up in the middle of your deployment area and pushing forward 5 by default with everything you've got isn't the best idea in the world anymore and folks are going to have to get their heads around that. Wave 1 Imperials were mainly played as a hard-hitting faction that if successful, produced results to win largely in the early to middle stages of a game. The YT changes that notion around a bit and folks will have to get their heads around that too, and perhaps look at lists that are more centered around the notion of exploting multiple Actions on ships and staying power rather than how many Attack dice or re-rolls they can generate at a high PR like before.

Not that generating high PR shots and re-rolls is suddenly a bad idea now- it just may not be crutch it once was for Imperial lists.

Cid_MCDP said:

Everything in your post is worth reading, and I endorse all of it.

***

@executor: either your experience with Wave 2 content has been very different from mine, or you're in for an unpleasant surprise when you get the new ships on the table.

The Falcon quite definitely changes the game, as does the Interceptor, and I think you're underestimating the offensive impact of inexpensive Imperial ships with 3 Attack.

Meanwhile, I think the A-wing will prove to be the most difficult Wave 2 ship to use effectively. It's zippy and fun, but it's a problem precisely because it doesn't "pack a punch enough to get the job done", particularly against Imperial lists. It needs to be augmented somehow in order to be effective, which make them a list-building challenge.

They'll certainly be useful in a couple of different roles--I bought four, and not because I enjoy lighting money on fire--but I think casting them as the breakaway star of the expansion drastically overstates their effectiveness.

it's possible that i could be a bit biased in my own opinions, but i've had the luxury of playing against multiple lists including the falcon and the Tie interceptors, and came out with really good odds against them.. i have yet to play against a list that includes the firespray so i'm loosely basing that off of the general impressions

i've been running lists with A-wings for the past few months now, so i've got a lot of experience with them and i think they more or less just cater to my playstyle and may or may not for others as well

as for the tie interceptors i still stand strongly behind my comments about them

I've had the exact opposite first blush on the YT-1300. Lando took 9 hits in the opening salvo, and was gone by turn 4. TIE Swarm just zeroed in on my big guy and cut him to ribbons right off the bat. I guess boosts and barrel rolls are the order of the day to keep your Falcon afloat.

We've the Falcon for a while now. Although I like model and ship, it just doesn't rbing enough punch to the table for the cost. You are better off in most cases taking two Xwings.

This weekend were our first games with Slave 1, it gathered quite the oppiste conclusion! We found it a mini-gun boat and a highly effective craft. I cannot express in words how much I love using bombs! The seismic charge was my favorite.

My fiance completely destroyed my YT with her Firespray. She fielded Krassis, Vader and Howlrunner. I fielded Han and two Rookie pilots. The second round I barely managed to beat her, she took out both of my rookies, and only needed two more hits on Han to kill him. I managed a lucky roll and finally beat her. From my limited experience, if used properly, the Firespray is a formidable opponent even against the YT.

I think only time will tell it's effectiveness or ineffectiveness. Similar to how people thought the Y-Wing wasn't too hot in the beginning, but people just needed to learn how to use it properly.

I personally think all the wave 2 ships are perfectly designed, aside from the Slave 1 Title card. The Falcon gives Rebels a magnet for TIEs allowing a couple of fighters to pick them apart. Slave is exactly as DoubleNot said, a gun boat. Both pack a punch, but you need to be extra careful in your planning. I accidentally ran Krassis into Kath and then Kath landed on an asteroid, which lost me the jump I needed to start with the pain and ended up costing me the game. I actually think both ships are costed very well and feel they can and will be very competitive. Let's face facts though most people have had the ships for less than a week.

I was not able to play any X-wing today to draw more conclusions, I was playing DnD instead (not my initial choice :b ) however I completely agree that only time will tell. I personally feel the slave 1 is way to dependent on upgrades and takes up a lot of space for imperials when they "seem" to need a swarm to win against rebels. (It's dead obvious that 1 on 1 TIE vs Rebels, rebels will usually win). I'm thinking of only using one interceptor in the team, as my squad leader for swarm tactics with a bunch of Tie fighters, and maybe one more Interceptor at the end, until I do more testing however I don't see the Slave 1 as a viable option in my swarm.

That's the great thing about this game, what works for one person may not work for another. You don't see everyone playing with the same lists. Personally I have been waiting for the Firespray to beef up my Imperials, as it is perfect for my play style.

Herrgeist said:

This, this, a thousand times this!!!

I agree with the thought that not everyone takes the same list. Think how darn boring this game would be if you did that. I think the mentality of focusing solely on how item "x" fits into the tournement scene is a bad way to evaluate if something is good or not. The real question is "Do you like it enough to use it?"

I'm reasonable sure that not everyone on this forum plays solely for tournament play. It's been my experience in other systems that there are 1 or 2 optimal lists, and that's all that gets played. Granted X-Wing only has so many weapons to use, but there are many combinations possible. Play what you like. I think it'll be more fun that way.

I found that with Vader & 5 various Ties I was able to take out the Falcon after 3 turns. That was after taking out Biggs.

I found the Firespark to be more of a support vehicle. Have a bigger threat (2 Intercepters) & it will live longer. I hope to try using the cheap guy w/ a hvy laser next game basically as a gunboat.

I was disappointed to have the named Awing land on my proximity mine to only roll 1 hit…

DoubleNot7 said:

I absolutely agree. We all bought our ships last week and played them a bunch over the weekend and it was enough to convince everybody to leave their Falcon at home for Monday's X-wing Game Night. Out of 6 squads, 3 were Imperial, two had Firespray-31's, and none had YT-1300's.

And it sounds like you must be as enthusiastic about the Firespray as I am! Those Seismic Charges really are the bomb! It's great to see your opponent's face when you drop it half-way through the match and they say, "I completely forgot about those." I'm a little surprised that I like the Firespray so much considering that I have always been a Rebel player, but all things considered, it really plays more like an X-wing than any Imperial ship.

Feels to me like the larger ships are just big support vessels for the rest of your squad. The Falcon is there to keep attention off of your squad, while your squadron is there to keep fire off your Firespray.

The falcon has high hull and the 360 turret going for it. It's a tank. Put it between the enemy and your fighters and shoot at something the rest of your squadron is going to shoot at. Sure you can give it some other nice things, but you're not going to be blining out your falcon unless Han's flying it.

The Firespray has versaitlity with a very long upgrade bar but this doesn't mean pack it with upgrades. It just means it can be made to do something specific in your squad. Treat it like the glass cannon of your formation while your fighters are harassing theirs to keep them out of position. Heavy Lasers with Mercenary gunner is one of the good combos for that ship.

Personally I find two YTs to be a more attractive proposition than two Firesprays. *shrug*

I really can't seem to get the YT-1300 to be workable.

Last night I played against my daughter with the idea of 2 ships that fire 306º and take no critical hits:

You are missing something. Try not putting so many upgrades on the Falcon. Also try using generic pilots to support it not named pilots. Too many points.

You can't tie 7 points into a big ship in action abilities, it's to easy to lose thier action.

360 degree firing arc? My buddy played the Falcon when we played, never noticed that.

Where does it say?

Argyle Jedi said:

Technically the Falcon does not have a 360 Firing Arc. It has a Firing Arc just like other ships.

What it DOES have is a Primary Weapon that may fire inside and outside of the Firing Arc, giving it a 360 firing Primary Attack. This is noted by the red circle with arrow on the ship counter and is covered in the rules sheet for the Falcon.

Jim

Our league part 2 started up last night and I helped build two Firespray lists for the night:

Bounty Hunter

-Heavy Laser

-Gunner

Alpha Squadron Pilot x3 - 99 Points

BH

-HL

-Gun

Howlrunner

Academy Pilot x 3 99 Points

In my games I was sloppy in the first round. Running two of my interceptors into asteroids multiple times and ultimately causing two of their deaths. The firespray was not at a right angle and was a hair off the table edge with a single hull point left.

As it ended up, one interceptor versus an x-wing at the very end and some movement mistakes caused me to get the 5- point annihilation win. But I gave up 81 points for his tiebreaker.

Second game was much better, paired against Vader with Concussion, Howlrunner, Tur and a generic Interceptor. I lost a single Alpha Squadron pilot and gained 100 points annihilation. With a lot better ship control, I was able to nearly always have a firing solution with all my ships. No need for swarm tactics.

The Firespray played very slow, and I was able to maintain 4 shots nearly each time, using Evade to ensure I survived if shot. When I rolled poorly on the first attack I had several instances of getting MORE hits with Gunner's shot.

My friend running the Howlrunner list also did well it sounds like, with some close games

He got 3 point wins in both games.