Fully spoiled here:

http://deckbauer.telfador.net/cards.html?productid=76&gameid=2&action=search

Naval Superiority is like "whaaaaaaaat?"

3 claim? With no drawback? And such an easy condition?

I mean I know they want to support their new mechanic but this seems a bit much.

tibs3688 said:

They will just restrict it after everyone buys it.

tibs3688 said:

Dr.Cornelius said:

Funny. To me, the game is as much fun as ever. Although I do share concerns that Black Sails is insanely overpowered.

I don't think Naval Superiority is that crazy. Declaring a naval attacker is different from just having a naval character in the challenge- you'll need at least two characters or a Fleet for each challenge, with specific icon/naval icon combinations.

Yes, I think some people's confusion about how Black Sails/Naval plots etc. work is leading them to believe they are ridiculously overpowered, they are definitely strong but I don't know if they are too strong (that's what we'll find out in OP this year!).

Also, I heard somewhere that the sky is falling, RUN WHILE YOU CAN.

fhornmikey said:

+1. People need to take a deep breath, familiarize themselves with the new mechanics in PRACTICE, not theory, and wait to form an opinion on the relative strength of Black Sails decks until such decks have been fairly tested.

Remember when House of Dreams was the most overpowered and broken card ever?

….oh

Naval Superiority is awesome, but not broken, imo. You need at least two characters for every attacking challenge, and one of them has to be introduced via a Naval declaration. So, what happens if your naval characters (or even your non-naval attackers that you were going to use to start the challenge) get control/killed through effects? Then it's just a 3/3/1 plot., which is….eh.

Dr.Cornelius said:

Learn to time Forgotten Plans. Watch lots of mediocre stat plots played as mediocre stat plots. The only disadvantage is you only have one Forgotten Plans… I wish that weren't the case. It seems to be a very well-balanced card.

mdc273 said:

Dr.Cornelius said:

I was being sincere. Have you played with Forgotten Plans and see what it does to some of the most powerful plot cards in the game? It neuters To the Spears, First Snow, Loyalty Money Can Buy, Fear of Winter, the list goes on. I didn't see any theory crafting as to why the plot is overpowered. I didn't see probabilities of draws, averages power levels of cards killed by 3 claim, odds of winning the challenge or any of that, so I suggested playing a card that I could not tell whether or not you played. Very few people in my meta play it. I figure it's not the worst assumption that other metas are similar.

The problem with forgotten plans is that you only get to run one of it, you don't get to see the other guy's plot deck, and the card is itself a mediocre stat plot with no effect when it misses. There are specific plots that it's great against but there are at least as many, if not more, with "when revealed" effects that it does nothing to and there's no reliable way for you to know which one is going to come up. I found that even running plots with good stats and no real effect otherwise, like song of summer, was more beneficial to me than forgotten plans since its effect was very hit-or-miss and I wasn't a fan of the 3 gold.

Threat of triple claim is not new if you've been playing against starks: Bastard boys, Winter is Coming, Lonely Hills. There's plenty of options to deal with Naval superiority. YOu could try to time it right with Forgotten Plans, or you could wait till he plays it. There's the Rookerys for one. The most he's getting against you is 1 challenge. Out comes Forgotten plans. Ally in melee, get who wins initiative to attack you, bring out forgotten plans. A bungled orders would let you bring it out.

Margery Tyrell, Bran Stark. You've been waiting for a reason to play Vary's . Now's a good time. Put his plots under your control. Sweet. You could time Loyalty Money can't buy to Alleviate the threat. perhaps

I think the best card that everone is forgetting is Conflict of Interest.. Just need a learned character. The Martells with some maesters have the least to worry Because of all the icon cancels, Scheming on the Sand, REd Vengeance. Citadel Law is a good event if you have some Maesters.

So the best ones i would say are Forgotten Plans already mentioned. Citadel Law, Conflict of interest and Margery Tyrell. These cards will make you good friends with the other player(s) if you 're playing melee. Naval Superiority may go restrcited. We'll have to wait until the cycle is complete and tested.

snaggrriss said:

Would Confict of Interest keep players from raising their claim though? I thought "base claim" only meant starting claim number.

snaggrriss said:

During deckbuilding I am saying to myself, "Hmm, Steven, how should I deal with Naval Superiority? Well, maybe I could run forgotten plans, that will give me the chance to make my opponent have a 1 claim plot just like me! Yay. We can both have 3 gold, 1 claim, maybe… No that won't do. I certainly don't want to dilute my claim for the chance to dilute my opponents claim. Maybe I should run some rooke--no, no, that isn't worth it, too conditional, too bad. Man, what should I do? Wait, I know. I will just run my own Naval Superiority."

And welcome to the post regional restricted list.

kr4ng said:

I don't understand why more people don't run Forgotten Plans. If you hit Naval Superiority with it, you are ahead on the initiative and neuter it. There is literally not a single deck in my meta where I feel Forgotten Plans is a wasted card even when I miss with it. I can not see myself building a deck which doesn't use it.

Matt, you'll be pleased then that one of the decks I'm bringing Thursday includes it

I don't agree that you need a specific answer to a conditional 3 claim plot. Just do the same as you would against a 2 claim plot, but with more urgency.

Vaapad said:

No… No I won't! This will counter my plans on playing a bunch of passive effect plots!

And yea with regards to countering Naval Superiority. Forgotten Plans is versatile enough that it's not just a hard counter for it. If that's all you are using it for, though, you're doin' it wrong. Don't include it, lol.

Why would anyone make a deck that has to pack specific answers for the best decks, instead of just making the best deck that everyone has to try to answer to?

kr4ng said:

If most are running the best deck then a deck with specific answers to it will beat it most likely which leads to better chance for win than just mirror match. Now if all are not playing the best deck then we get into more complicated things that is the ever changing meta on what is best and what people are running so that they can handle the deck that they see as best.

Most worlds have been won by decks that weren't seen to be best in the meta.

Would Confict of Interest keep players from raising their claim though? I thought "base claim" only meant starting claim number.. You are right. NAval surperiority base is 1