COM 2D said:

Concussion Missiles without support are probably worse here than Torpedoes, since they're just as likely to miss and a much less likely to crit. Meanwhile the Missiles and HLC on Krassis are doing the same thing, and he can't fire both in the same turn.

It's odd to say, but the Empire doesn't have anything like A-wings as a missile boat: the Tempest Squadron is a bit too expensive. If you want an initial missile barrage--and here that it is one of the more obvious ways to efficiently strip the Falcon of either its shields or its escort fighters--I actually think you need to look at Rebel lists.

On the Imperial side, I'm wondering if running Firespray + HLC with a trio of Interceptors might not work. Krassis makes things a bit tight, but you could manage Bounty Hunter + HLC, Turr + PtL + Stealth, 2x Alpha + Stealth. Han is actually pretty **** good at stripping Stealth, but he can only do it to one ship per turn, and meanwhile he's eating 7-9 damage per round.

EDIT: Whoops, I forgot to carry the 10 and I'm way over budget. Let's try again, at 99 points:

• Bounty Hunter (33) + Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
• Fel's Wrath (23)
• Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)
• Alpha Squadron Pilot (18)

@Vorpalsword,

I think Han is eating at most 5-7 damage in the first round because Han will shoot before everything. If he doesn't drop a squint the X-wings will shoot before the alphas and put one down. Also Han's chance to crit that squint and get something to screw it over is so high.

I don't think three squints is the answer if they are shooting after the X-wings. If you could get them shooting before the x-wings it might work. The list I struggled against had ties that shot before the X-wings. But once they were banged up Han was dropping one a turn like Chewie drops the base on the Falcon.

I think it stands a chance. The four ties equals the two x-wings.

dandirk said:

My initial thought was: the problem with trying to run 2 YT's is trying to run 2 YT's. Having 1 on the board is tough enough to try and pull off the optimal maneuver each round. With 2, now you've seriously limited where you can fly with both of them. And what will happen if you face a YT/Firespray? That would get seriously interesting.

But then I got to thinking, how awesome would it be to have an ORS running intereference for Han?

Han
-Chewbacca
-Gunner
-Marksmanship
-Shield Upgrade

Outer Rim Smuggler
-Luke Skywalker
-Engine Upgrade

I've said before how much fun it is to boost the ORS after moving straight 4. Ok, it may not be uber competitive, but it would be tons of fun.

No, for competitiveness, I'd stick with the 2 Xwings. they are much easier to keep out of Han's way for maneuvering.

Alternately, I made up this list last night:

Wedge
-R2D2
-Proton Torpedoes
-Stealth Device

Arvel Crynyd
-Homing Missiles
-Stealth Device

Biggs
-R2F2

The theory being that while Han is tied up with Biggs, Wedge and Arvel shoot their missiles/torps. Wedge hurts han each time he attacks him. And Arvel can base Han and attack without Han shooting back. Han will go after the Xwings first, leaving Arvel to predict where han will go and get there first to block him and still get an attack off with 3 dice. i dunno, maybe it won't work. It's just another squad to add to my "wanna play" list…

I'm going to try the second YT-100 however I don't think the list has the fire power to keep swarms down.

Picasso said:

I didn't notice that ORS only has an attack of 2, in that case 2 x-wings are preffered. The only other way would be to use Chewie to pilot which then would remove co-pilot from Han and cost a number of points netting higher pilot skill.

IF fielding 2 YT with 3 attack dice, the build is only weaker on attack(vs 2 x-wing) until you loose an x-wing. Once you loose 1 X, then attack power leans in favor of 2 YT with gunners.

The flip side is 2 x-wings each have 2 agility dice vs YT's 1, giving them an edge in def. Though a 3 attack dice YT does have 3 more hull/shield.

After looking at it, yeah I don't think 2 YTs is as strong, pretty much the only thing you could do is:

YT #1

Pilot: Han

Crew: Gunner

YT #2

Pilot: Chewie*

Crew: Gunner

This only leaves 2 pts left for any combo of 1/2 pt upgrades, or you can use Lando to pilot YT#2 with no addtional upgrades. You then loose 2 addtional hull/shield by not having chewie as co-pilot etc.

Yes, it's much better with Chewie, greettings.

Wouldn't Backstabber's ability be useless against the Falcon?

RogueLieutenant said:

No, as his ability is dependent upon the front firing arc, very similar to the Ywing Ion Cannon. Although it is a little more useless on the Firespray, as the Firespray has both a front and rear firing arc. So backstabber has to be a side-stabber aganst a Firespray.

I think a squint over Backstabber might be the better tactic. Who knows?

I have to think the old fasion tie swarm is the answer.

Picasso said:

Are you thinking a Howlrunner based 7 ship swarm, or a full on 8 ship swarm? My concern is that the falcon might just be able to take out howlrunner early making you wish you had the extra tie.

My guess for a TIE swarm would either be the 8 TIE swarm or an "elite" 6 TIE swarm where you present 5-6 semi-credible threats like Howlrunner, Mithel, Backstabber, Dark Curse, Winged Gundark and Night Beast.

I tend to agree that if you have 1 named pilot, he'll probably be focused pretty quickly resulting in you just wishing you had the extra TIE. Having 6 decent TIEs will mean you'll go ahead of the rookies though which might work.

Bear in mind I have played no games with wave 2 yet.

I'm thinking four academy pilots and three name pilots. Mauler, Backstabber, Howler Runner? Cause I honestly don't know which one to shoot first.

With crits stacking up on the Falcon, "Winged Gundark" might finally come into his own.

i think TIE swarms are now going to be 6 ships, with a mixture of Squints and Eyeballs. I just don't see the Wave 1 7-TIE swarms being nearly as effective now. Although, I dfo want to play my Worlds squad at some point, maybe _if_ I win one of the regionals, I'll go to another Regional with my Worlds list and see how I do.

I'm wondering (and hoping to find out in the next 3 days or so) how these might do:

They are variations on the same list

Krassis Trelix (36) + Heavy Laser Canon (7) = 43

Mauler Mithel (17)

Backstabber (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

The other options are:

Krassis Trelix (36) + Heavy Laser Canon (7) + Mercenary Co-Pilot (2) = 45

Mauler Mithel (17) + Veteran Instincts (1) = 18

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

and then the same list but taking off Instincts and putting on siesmic charges to get things that get too close.

@Right,

That was the list that almost beat me on Saturday. The first one.

@Hothie,

I don't think the Swarm is shelved. I think it is not as powerful as it once was but it is still a ligit list.

Picasso said:

I don't know; I think the swarm will face a lot of problems in the Wave 2 meta. In my experience, the swarm --by which I mean 7- and 8-ship Imperial lists--succeeds only as long as it can keep its opponent seriously outnumbered. That means it has to accrue kills early and frequently, and also that once the swarm starts to fall behind in the attrition game it usually stays that way.

But defenses are generally better in Wave 2, with Stealth Device and more maneuverable Rebel fighters and the beefy Large ships. That means it's harder to get those early kills that maintain or even improve your advantages. Wave 2 also features better offense, which (assuming it doesn't apply to the swarm, which can't afford the upgrades) means your opponent is able to hit back more effectively and earlier.

So the swarm strategy gets hit twice. Looking back at the list featuring Han + Gunner + Marksmanship, what does the swarm bring that can crack it? The swarm can't effectively skulk behind or through asteroids for cover, which means an early head-to-head pass is likely--and to me that looks like a recipe for losing 2-3 TIEs in exchange for an X-wing, at best.

I'm just tossing out ideas. The list that I KNOW that can beat the Han list can't hold it's own against other lists, like a TIE swarm or a missile heavy list. So I'm looking for other options. The Heavy canon is key. I also don't think you can run a Slave one without it.

I think the swarm brings numbers. So it brings lots of guns, and the ability to sacrifice a ship to a bump to cancel that marksmanship action.

So I'm coming back to this thread for a few reasons,

1.) with wave three coming out is HSF still a valid list?

2.) for the game night I'm participating in I have to create three different lists from the same faction and I'm playing around with variants.

3.) can I get the same results with a different YT pilot?

So starting with the wave three meta, I figured I'd just list the cards I'm thinking about finding points for.

Anti pursuit lasers

Saboteur

Navigator

To find the points for these cards I have to down grade the X-wings or change out an upgrade card.

This also brings me to point three. Do I fly this list with lando or chewie instead? What are the pros and cons?

I have been flying a Lando list with two missile loaded A-wings. However it seems to lack the firepower to get things done late in the game.

And this starts the variant discussion.

For this game night I need three lists to run. I am thinking that I run HSF as one list. Then I swap out the x-wings for A-wings, and then try to find a list where I run one A-wing and one X-wing.

I have had success running 2 prototypes with cluster missiles instead of the Rookies.

I leave it to the opinions of the forum for some advice and help.

~Picasso