I need a bit of clarification on costs / cost reductions

My oponent has Gylbert Farwynd - GotC F7 - "The cost to play non-Noble cards cannot be reduced."

I have my agenda HOUSE OF DREAMS – ArotD F119 and my chosen locaton is DORNE – PotS F31

Due to the agenda, the location gains "Immune to opponents' non-plot card effects."

Dorne states

Marshalling: Kneel Dorne to choose 1 Trait. Until the end of the phase, reduce the gold cost for you to marshall cards with that Trait by 1.

I assume that I can still use Dorne as it is immune to Gylbert's text (so the CANNOT is not even seen)

I'm also wondering whether the different cost reduction texts mean much

Some cards state "lower the cost", some state "reduce the cost" and Dorne is specifically "reduce the gold cost"

So I am thinking that Dorne is not reducing the cost to play, it is reducing the actual gold cost of a card before it is played .. and therefore would not be affected by Glybery even without the agenda protection

When dealing with other characters such as STARFALL CAVALRY – MotA F91

"Reduce the cost to play Starfall Cavalry by 1 for each House Dayne character you control"

The reduction is not a response so is this still blocked by Glybert … I assume it is blocked but not sure

thanks

HastAttack said:

Look at it this way: You attack with The Red Viper. I defend with a a couple characters, then play Kingsmoot Support (choose 3 characters, one gets +1 STR, the second gets +2 STR, the third gets +3 STR), bumping the STR of my defenders. Does the attacking, event-immune Viper get to ignore those +X STR modifiers on the defenders when resolving the challenge? No, because the event didn't do anything directly to him. Your Dorne/HoD/Farwynd situation is exactly the same - Farwynd is not doing anything directly to Dorne, so it's immunity doesn't change your inability to reduce the cost of cards you play.

HastAttack said:

HastAttack said:

Short answer: no matter how you spin it, Farwynd screws your HoD/Dorne/House Dayne deck.

Thanks - my oponent will love the response … I was worried it was going to be a case of where the immunity ends

I'll just have to remove his icons and then use Poisened Spear on him

So there is no difference between Reduce the Cost and Reduce the Gold Cost?

A couple of other questions if I may:

Is the Alliance agenda also affected by Gylbert - that refers to "ignore the out of house penalty" … which I assume is not a reducer, the penalty just doesn't apply and therefore Glybert has not affect on the agenda text

Glybert refers to non-noble cards - I'm not aware of any non-character cards that have crests … his text definately means all cards and not just characters though?

HastAttack said:

Yep. No reduction of locations and attachments while he's in play.

HastAttack said:

HastAttack said:

1. Determine the type of cost that will be paid (think of those events that let you kneel characters or influence to pay their cost)
2. Check the play restrictions (to make sure it is legal to play the card)
3. Apply all applicable penalties to the cost (including anything that specifically modifies those penalties)
4. Apply cost modifiers
5. Pay the costs
6. Choose the targets

At that point, the card/effect is "officially" initiated.

Farwynd prevents cost reducing/lowering modifiers from being applied in #4. But he doesn't stop modification of penalties, like the OOH gold penalty, in #3. So the Alliance agenda modifies the penalty (by ignoring it) before Farwynd even exerts his influence.

(By the way: the fact that penalties are applied to the cost before the modifiers are is also the reason that modifiers to the (total) cost can actually "counterbalance" gold penalties.)