Hi again, and im sorry for making all these questions, but now a fried told me this doubt. I think he is wrong, but i've checked i was wrong a lot of times so I'm asking.

My friend thinks that if I use an effect that makes me show a new Plot Card when its not the Plot Phase [Like Tides of War (plot) or Masters of the Sea (event; Baratheon)] and that new plot has a "when it's shown" effect, that efect doesn't work.
He says that, since the Plot Phase is the only one that is structured to resolve the "when its shown" plot effects, these effects won't work in any other phase.
I told him that the Plot Phase is the only one structured that way because all the opponents show their plot cards at a time in that phase, and there had to be a way to determine who resolved his first. But if i show a new plot card in the Challenge Phase (for example) and it has a "when it's shown" effect, i have to resolve it "when it's shown".

Now, who would be right here?.

I'm going to refer you to an entry in the FAQ:

(6.1) Plot Effect Resolution

Continuous or constant plot effects take effect immediately and simultaneously, as soon as the plot cards are revealed. The first player determines the order in which all "when revealed" plot effects are resolved. "When revealed" plot effects are essentially self-referential passive effects that initiate in response to the revealing of the plot card with the "when revealed" effect. They are resolved (in the order determined by the first player) during step 4 of the action window in which the plot card was revealed. All "when revealed" plot effects must resolve before any other passive effects initiated by the revealing of a plot card(s) are resolved. Any "when revealed" plot with a cancel effect (such as Outmaneuver) will take effect at its first available opportunity.

Now, the first thing to note is that this entry does not limit itself to the Plot Phase. The second thing to note is that it clearly indicates that "When Revealed" plot text is passively triggered by revealing the plot. Taken together, this clearly means that whenever a plot is revealed, if it has "when revealed" text, that text activates and is resolved passively (and that any constant effects on the plot are active immediately).

So your interpretation is correct. "When revealed" plot text is activated passively by the act of revealing the plot card, regardless of whether the plot is revealed by the Plot Phase game effect or some other card effect.

To help explain this to your friend, does the Draw Phase framework event in the flow chart "Each player draws two cards" over-ride the King's of Summer Agenda text that essentially modifies how many cards a player draws for this framework event? Of course not. This is because framework events printed in the flowchart are really very basic information to help you put the timing together. The flowchart is not the first and last word in all matters of timing. I mean, if it was, how would the Epic Phase and its challenges created by the Epic Battle event cards work? So, the Plot Phase framework event "4. 'When revealed' plot effects resolve (In order determined by First Player)" is more of an indication that the First Player chooses the order of resolution (and that this order does not necessarily have to be clockwise from the First Player). How it actually works, both in the Plot Phase and outside of it, is clarified by the FAQ entry I quoted.

Hope that all helps.

Indeed it does, Ktom, thanks a lot really. Hey, i hope its not bothering if i ask this but: how come you know so much about the game and about all the doubts we have?, i was surprised when i didnt see your nick between the mods, and you seem to know more than the game designer himself!

Aertes said:

Well, I think the mods are all FFG employees. And it's not that I know more than the game designer; I think it's that I see things from more of a player's point of view. The designers are both blessed and cursed by having to look at the game in a totally different light (and with a lot more knowledge of what the game environment is going to look like next month and next year) than I do. They play, but it's different for them, I think.

I'm just a loud-mouth who has been playing the game and judging organized play events for about 5 years. I know about the game from simple experience, and I know about the doubts because I've had similar ones. Any answer that I come up with is reasoned out from this experience with the game, rules and rules documents. It's not FFG's official answer (although I have a pretty good track record of coming up with the same answers). Essentially, I've just had more time to piece a lot of this stuff together, have been there for much of the history, and can't keep my mouth shut.

Hehehe, well never keep your mouth shut, ktom. Your and others opinion in this forum are helping a lot to my Spanish comunity of players. We try to play this game the best possible way, and whose oppinion is better than those who actually have English as mother language and know the Game of Thrones so much. For all your previous and future help, thank you.

I think at one point we burnt a king in a pyre to create the ultimate rules guru, and Ktom walked out. Outside of the guys actually making the game, Ktom does the most for this game than anybody else and I don't think we thank him enough. We're lucky to have someone like him in the community.

Thanks Ktom!

JerusalemJones said:

I beg to differ. tzumainn's maintenance of his website does more for this game than I do. But thanks for the thanks!