We had an issue in our game the other day whereby the Bounty Hunter landed on the same space as a character. Now the Bounty Hunter's ability states:

"You may take 1 trophy of your choice from a character that you land on."

It's always been my understanding that in order to use that ability you have to encounter a character, not necessarily via combat, but through the special ability in question.

So you land on a character and use that ability thereby encountering them. You can't also encounter the space they're on as well?

Does this also apply for any objects or followers that have a similar effect. For example the Panhandler reads:

"If you land on a character, that character must either five you 1 gold or 1 object of his choice."

The crux of the counter argument to this, was that none of these abilities use the phrase "encounter a player to…". Personally I think that argument is specious. In my mind the flowchart on the rear of the core rulebook shows the correct method, but I was hoping to get clarification either way from the masses

The rules state that when you land on a character you can either attack him, use a special ability on him or encounter the space. If the ability comes from an item or follower I don't think you are allowed to use that ability and then encounter the character unless the item/follower/ability specifically state so.

All characters speciall-encounter skills are worded "… from a character that you land on."

Just look at the Sorceress or Vampiress, it's the same wording.

The way we have been playing is like you, using a special ability vs a PC requires encountering them. Like attacking, you do this instead of encountering the space. We have been letting Followers like the Panhandler effect a Character landed on regardless of how the space is ‘encountered’. Is the argument: ‘ when you land on a character ’ can only technically happen when you encounter a Character? As opposed to encountering the space?

The rules don’t say anything, to my knowledge and I’ve been known to be wrong!, about followers that have abilities that effect characters (like the panhandler). And the city has allot of them. Allot of interesting card interactions. I wish some of the authors could skim through here and clarify some of the new stuff.

There's no official rule about landing on characters. The wording land on is referred to spaces only. On some recent card texts it has been applied to character (wrongly, IMO). Landing on a character should be read as landing on a space with a character.

The_Warlock said:

So regardless of whether you decide to encounter the space or the character you can always use any "land on…" abilities if you end your move on a character?

EvilEdwin said:

That's not what I was trying to say. Check pg. 9 in the base Rulebook (Movement in the Outer and Middle Regions):

The space where a character lands is the space where he ends his movement or
the space to which he is moved to as the result of an encounter or effect.

The rules use the keyword "land" only for spaces. You always land on spaces, not on characters. Cards that say "a character you land on" are using a short form for "a character in the space you land on".

When you land on a space, the basic Encounter Sequence and the Rulebook instruct you to choose whether to encounter the space or a character on the space. If you choose to encounter the character, you may either attack him or use a special ability (only one). "Land on" special abilities always require to encounter a character in order to be used.

Warlock says: "Land on" special abilities always require to encounter a character in order to be used."

Obviously this is true when talking about a Characters special ability. But I don’t see how this statement works with a follower like the panhandler or the haggler. Are you saying that using a "land on…" special ability from a follower is another way of encountering a player? That is you use a follower’s special ability in lieu of attacking or using a character derived special ability?

Which is true:

- I land on a space with a character. I use the panhandler follower’s ability on the character. Then I choose to encounter the player as normal or the space.

- I land on a space with a character. I use the panhandler follower’s ability on the character. My turn is over since I used a “special ability” of a follower.

Can anyone cite a rule to back that up?

I continue to struggle with this because in the rules it only talks about Special Abilities as belonging to Characters. There is nothing stated about Followers having “special abilities”, and the rules say that you can use the text of objects and followers when every you want.

Its also confusing because there are Special Abilities of Characters and Followers that don’t effect other characters, such as the Druid gaining his complement of spells when he lands on the woods. Can he use that Special Ability when he encounters a Character on that Space?

I would really like to see FFG clarify this ‘lands on’ issue in plain english for Characters and Followers. Right now trying to cross-reference the revised rules and FAQ is not really cutting it with the added complexities of the City Expansion.

Land on for Druid and Leprechaun, because they don't interact with another character, happen when they end their movement in the mentioned space, but before they decide on whether to encounter the space or the character (Druid case is mentioned in the FAQ).

Bolithio said:

^{I've spent a good hour or so this morning cross referencing this n that in relation to the LAND ON vs ENCOUNTER quandry and I will attemp to relate my opinions in as simple terms as possible.}

^{The definition of LAND ON:}

^{The space where a character lands is the space where he ends his movement or the space to which he is moved to as the result of an encounter or effect.}

^{Now the way to imagine it is after moving your character you land on a SPACE. This space is defined only by it's type which is the main keyword printed on the space (Desert, Woods, Portal of power, Plains etc) The small printed instructions and any characters in it are iGNORED for now. Yor character is effectively wandering into that space of that type not doing anything else.}

^{Now you get to make a choice:}

^{Do I choose to follow the instructions ON the space (and therefore any cards there) or encounter a Character here and IGNORE the printed instructions on the space.}

^{If I choose the character, then I can now interact with that character using my characters abilities and any other effects on cards such as the Panhandler. The printed instructions on the space no longer matter, hence why you dont lose a life in the desert if youencounter a character instead of the space. You are still in the desert or woods but choosing to interact with the other character instaed of having an adventure there. You cannot interfere with that character unless you choose to encounter them first.}

^{On the subject of the panhandler, his ability will be in addition to whatever else you choose to do when encountering that character (attacking, special ability etc) the rule for simultaneous effects comes into play so you choose to do whichever first.}

^{Now for the other choice:}

^{Obviously if you choose the printed instructions on the space and not the character then you cannot use any effects or abilities that allow you to interact with that character, you focus is on the space and all the fun that will go along with it.}

^{So case in hand THE DRUID}

^{His ability reads thus:}

• ^{Whenever you land on the Woods , you may gain your full complement of Spells , according to your current Craft}

^{So our Druid Bob who conveniently also has the Panhandler follower wanders into a Woods Space which also contains Kevin the Minstrel and Nigel the Ghoul.}

First things first Bob is in the Woods therefore he gets his spells. no matter what he next chooses to do, he is still in the woods and reaps that benefit. He now gets 1 of two choices: Kevin and Nigel OR the woods space itself (and therefore will follow the small print instructions. Bob chooses Kevin and Nigel and now ignores the printed instructions on the woods space, but he now has to make a further choice, which character to encounter. He cannot choose both. He chooses Nigel the Ghoul and uses his Panhandlers ability to grift him and then chooses to attack him being the foul abomination to nature that he is.

Hope that helps clear the confusion up.

I always thought you landed on an undefined space until you decided to encounter it. Hence why you don't loose the life in the desert. Of course, in our games this means the druid can't gain spells if he chooses to encounter a character either.

I think your way to resolve the problem is fine GrimGuvna, but I don't think most players will be satisfied with it.

Haggler and Panhandler are wrongly worded, or incomplete at least. They are written like character special abilities (e.g. Sorceress), which have specific rules:

1) you must choose to encounter a character to use them

2) you use them instead of attacking a character

but they are NOT character special abilities, they are card effects instead. A card like Tricks and Treats is better worded and has not caused any trouble so far.

In other words, we need FFG to fix this by making an errata for these 2 cards. They could go one way or the other:

1) add "This counts as your encounter for this turn";

2) use "encounter" instead of "land on" a character, which is a wrong use of the "land on" wording as explained before in this thread.

I always thought you landed on an undefined space until you decided to encounter it. Hence why you don't loose the life in the desert. Of course, in our games this means the druid can't gain spells if he chooses to encounter a character either.

This is a house rule, or a habit of yours. According to the rules quoted by GrimGuvna, "Land on a space" means "end movement on a space" and does not require to encounter/visit the space. There is a difference between the Druid's ability to gain full complement of Spells in the Woods and the Vampiress ability to heal at the Graveyard. The fIrst is a "land on" ability, while the second requires visiting the Graveyard (=encountering the space).

Rigmaster that is wrong. Grimguvna is totally correct.

If you say so. I still think your solution just complicates the game even more. Perhaps that's why we play it the other way.

Either encounter the space or the character. No exceptions.

Ah thats interesting. Good read.

So following GrimGuvna's rules, if there is a fireland token on the space, does this always take effect or only if you choose to encounter the space? Thanks.

So following GrimGuvna's rules, if there is a fireland token on the space, does this always take effect or only if you choose to encounter the space? Thanks.

The fireland tokens make you lose a life if you end your turn on a space with one of them. GrimGuvna's solution has nothing to do with this. It doesn't matter if you encounter the space or the character. The only way to avoid a fireland token is to have the option to move away before turn ends (e.g. Dervish or Shamshir of Khamsin abilities).

I always thought you landed on an undefined space until you decided to encounter it. Hence why you don't loose the life in the desert. Of course, in our games this means the druid can't gain spells if he chooses to encounter a character either.

This is a house rule, or a habit of yours. According to the rules quoted by GrimGuvna, "Land on a space" means "end movement on a space" and does not require to encounter/visit the space. There is a difference between the Druid's ability to gain full complement of Spells in the Woods and the Vampiress ability to heal at the Graveyard. The fIrst is a "land on" ability, while the second requires visiting the Graveyard (=encountering the space).

Sorry to necro this discussion, but I have been thinking about this recently and I feel that Rigmaster's method is the correct method according to the FAQ examples given.

1) The example for Simultaneous Effects (FAQ Pg. 3) cites the Druid's gaining of Spells when "landing on" the Woods with a Hex Spell being on the same space. The player is given the choice of which to resolve first amongst these triggered effects.

2) In the FAQ Encounter Sequence (Pg. 1), which only concerns Encountering a Space, not Characters, in Step 2 Hex is used as the example of a card without an Encounter number that must be Encountered. This happens after the player has chosen to Encounter the Space already and has followed the directions to draw cards.

When these 2 examples are taken together, The sequence that is required is you must land on the space, choose to Encounter the Space, follow the space instructions if it is a draw card space, then at this point you can gain Spells as the Druid or gain Gold as the Leprechaun. If a player lands on the Woods space but chooses to Encounter a Character, they therefore cannot gain Spells/Gold per the FAQ examples. Luckily, this is internally consistent with "land on" effects from Characters and Followers, where to be used you must Encounter the Character you are to use the ability on.

I always thought you landed on an undefined space until you decided to encounter it. Hence why you don't loose the life in the desert. Of course, in our games this means the druid can't gain spells if he chooses to encounter a character either.

This is a house rule, or a habit of yours. According to the rules quoted by GrimGuvna, "Land on a space" means "end movement on a space" and does not require to encounter/visit the space. There is a difference between the Druid's ability to gain full complement of Spells in the Woods and the Vampiress ability to heal at the Graveyard. The fIrst is a "land on" ability, while the second requires visiting the Graveyard (=encountering the space).

Sorry to necro this discussion, but I have been thinking about this recently and I feel that Rigmaster's method is the correct method according to the FAQ examples given.

1) The example for Simultaneous Effects (FAQ Pg. 3) cites the Druid's gaining of Spells when "landing on" the Woods with a Hex Spell being on the same space. The player is given the choice of which to resolve first amongst these triggered effects.

2) In the FAQ Encounter Sequence (Pg. 1), which only concerns Encountering a Space, not Characters, in Step 2 Hex is used as the example of a card without an Encounter number that must be Encountered. This happens after the player has chosen to Encounter the Space already and has followed the directions to draw cards.

When these 2 examples are taken together, The sequence that is required is you must land on the space, choose to Encounter the Space, follow the space instructions if it is a draw card space, then at this point you can gain Spells as the Druid or gain Gold as the Leprechaun. If a player lands on the Woods space but chooses to Encounter a Character, they therefore cannot gain Spells/Gold per the FAQ examples. Luckily, this is internally consistent with "land on" effects from Characters and Followers, where to be used you must Encounter the Character you are to use the ability on.

What a bad example in that Encounter Sequence. Hex Spell is absolutely not tied to the choice of encountering a space. If you land on the Hex, you lose a life no matter what you choose to do in the encounter. The Simultaneous Effects example was devised exactly because both listed effects happen when you "land on" = "end your movement" :

The Hex Spell states that any character who lands on it must lose 1 life. The Druid’s special ability states that he may gain his full complement of Spells whenever he lands on the Woods. If the Druid lands on a Woods space with the Hex Spell, he decides if he loses a life first or if he gains Spells first.

You are making inductive reasoning here. You're first supposing the conclusion and then try to find the evidence to support it.

When I said that "land on" used for characters (and for the Hex Spell as well!) is wrongly used, I'm applying the rules as written. However, these are old cards that gave no real problems in 2nd edition and BI 4th edition, because "land on" was not defined as a keyword. Revised 4th edition did this, but unfortunately forgot to apply it consistently.

The Encounter Sequence in FAQ 1.1 has been devised really poorly IMO, and it's far better to completely ignore it than reading it in bits and trying to find general answers. You and many others read it forgetting an important premise: it was devised to clarify how to encounter a space , since the information given in the basic rulebook has gradually become insufficient or obsolete with cards introduced by expansions.

However, the basic rules said this:

Resolving Cards Without An Encounter Number

Cards that are placed on spaces and do not have an encounter number (such as the Hex Spell) must be resolved before the character encounters any other character, cards, or the instructions on the space itself.

This Encounter Sequence pretends to make everything clear by cancelling this rule and force the Hex Spell into the space encounter, telling you to follow the instructions on the space first? What's the reason of turning upside-down an existent and trouble-free rule from the base game?

There are few cards without EN that are placed on spaces, probably not more than 2 or 3. I can't accept they would have changed rules for the sake of those cards, so my only conclusion is that the Encounter Sequence is a big oversight.

It has been 4 years without an updated FAQ and we can only make use of the one we have. Still I think that the rules manual is a more reliable source for general rules. Whatever the FAQ says, we shouldn't use it to subvert rules from the base game, unless explicitly noted.