Hey guys,

I used to be a fair contributor to these forums (my account died when the forums migrated ), and I've always had only one gripe with UFS: the Good resource (my personal favorite) has always been in the mid-to-low tiers. Now, I haven't been all that connected to the game lately, but I just want to know: is Good still considered weak compared to other symbols? Where would you rank it?

The reason why I ask is because I'm trying to get back into the game, but if my favorite resource isn't viable, that's not much of a motivator...

If you can spend the money for it, Good has potential.

It has arguably the best kill card in the game (Feline Spike), Red Lotus of the Sun, momentum gen in White Gi or White Magic, Alluring Beauty...not to mention little tech cards such as Cat's Reflexes or Stone Mail.

It's not exactly cheap, but I'd say it's pretty playable now.

Not Down and out, but not exactly up and in.

It's got access to a great spread of cards, but relatively little focus on exactly what it wants to do to be succesful.

If you're looking for a tier rating, Good is solidly mid-tier on its own, and far better when combined with another resource (Water, Void, Order, and Chaos being the best examples).

Good has always been a heavily anti-meta symbol, and that precedent continues. It has good momentum generation, decent card draw, powerful anti-hack cards, the most effective kill card in the game, and, as usual, stupidly strong damage redux; additionally, it has tons of awesome characters. About the only thing it's missing is board control.

Actually, Good has a very good thing going for it

It has

Healer

holding ground

Fight or flight.

all 3 which are multiple killers, and at a snap reduce that 100D 100 sped attack back to its original 3D or so.

as board control, you can use Owlface and/or Shadowblade for that

My perfect kill turn goes like this

Darkness blade (as a reversal or otherwise) tapping most of opponent's cards-> feline Spike (stun 2 tapping more cards). People are normally unable to block through all that.

There is also Destiny, which gives you and your opponent momentum, which leads to N-type Human that clears some blocks away on your kill turn. It also stops hacks.

Undercover agent is a major deterrent (is it the 2nd or 3rd time that triggers? Wording suggests 2, people suggests 3) for those who like to abuse multiple effects on the same turn

For other defence, you can go Narccistic+ amy's assistant to reduce a lot of attacks to 0 or near 0.

What I wish good would have, however, would be some good way of destroying Owlface.

good is very good right now. it just isn't quite top tier.

Well, it's good to know that it's not at the bottom of the barrel.

What about characters? I know I used to play a beatstick deck with **Maxi** and Pirate from Ryukyu (I STILL have no idea why he was used so little; his E was beastly, especially with Multiples). Good's defense is strong, so I let that take care of itself. I know he's out of rotation, so what characters are doing well now?

Cutting Edge Nagase is harder to kill than most and also has a very good +momentum ability; promo Gill has 8 handsize, a major advantage at any time; promo Gen has the best HS/vitality ratio in block 3 and two useful abilities; the newest Nakoruru has a lot of potential to abuse reversals; Yi Shan makes his moves big and your moves small {Feline Spike becomes 7/1 for less than 2/3rds his life}; Domination Ryu has a nifty anti-recursion tech and strong card draw.

What I wish good would have, however, would be some good way of destroying Owlface.

Family Heirloom--action side destroys 2 assets

The problem I see with good with the loss of roam the world it cant stand up to loads of negation . Cards like chesters backing red lotus inhuman perception if good gets roam they are back in the game .

Scubadude, I just want to point out that every negation card you just mentioned shares a symbol with Superiority and Oral Dead.

DEFlores said:

I know but my point is good has no way or committing foundations right now which hinders its ability to match up to some of the other resources .

While good does lack the ability to commit foundations the new Nak can fore your opponent to destroy foundations with her ability on reversals. SHe also has a foundation that forces your opponent to destroy one. Shadow Blade will also blow up a foundation. So while good lacks commit it does have destroy which can be just as good. Force your opponent to go replay those foundations rather than just ready. Might not be as easy but it is there.

You know, in all actuality, Darkness Blade commits characters, foundations and assets. and using *Felicia* or ***Morrigan***, you have access to your opponent's enhances, making it even more effective.

Can you defeat the top tier decks of the moment with Good?

No?

Therefore it should be cast away.

Homme Chapeau said:

I disagree. I think you can defeat the top tier decks, however it requires some thought, and going out and getting more UR's then most deck requires.

Demuth's Sponsorship + Mysterious Stance is a very highly underrated combo. In fact there are a bunch of Combos along with mysterious stance.

Mysterious Stance + Good ='s I don't care what your speed is. With Addes being gone, the amount of R negation is significantly reduced.

Moral of the story:

Is good top tier, because you can build a strong deck without thinking about it? No.

Is good mid tier, because to build a good deck you have to actually work at it, put some thought into it, and then expend some resources to build the deck? Yes.

Also, take any good deck, add in 4x reversal, and you've got a rocking legacy deck.

White gi and mysterious stance is one commonly used to deal with attacks then they have holding ground and fight or flight for multiples.

Mysterious Stance has been one of my fav cards since it came out... with White Magic or Mignon it becomes very easy to fuel. The 2 cards that (imo) Good's gonna really miss come rotation are Roam the World and Nothing to Lose. It'd miss Temporal but Homerun sorta makes up for it...

ShadowDragon said:

They still have lone and wolf white gi as well for card draw so I think they are good tempo wise if they get a few commit effects they can hang with the likes of order, chaos, and evil .

The trouble I find with Good, is that all the characters that have it are generally favourable off a different resource. How often do you see a character and immediately think to run them off Good? And to be fair, there aren't that many really good characters that have Good in the first place. The ones that come to mind would be:

Felicia - Most would rather run her off Air for its better checks ('Suicide' build)

Raphael - Possibly an exception here, due to Fight Or Flight, but even then, an Air build with KOF2006 and Galactica Phantom is probably favourable

Gen - It'd be difficult to honestly pick Good over Order...

Nagase - Same problem as Gen, and has Chaos to boot

Gill - See above two

Yi Shan - Earth seems to bode better for him, but Good does have the multiple attacks like Spike that could make the most of him

Ralf - Again, Air and Chaos seem to be able to cater to his effects, and his kill condition more effectively

Morrigan - Water's ability to control its opponent seems better suited to her, but perhaps having Red Lotus makes a big difference?

Other than these guys, there are characters like Elena, Mignon, Talim, Kyo, Lilith and Vega, who COULD have an impact (Vega won the UK's most recent regionals after all, not sure if it was indeed built off Good or not), but often tend only to scratch the sides of the more potent characters like Chun-Li, Donovan, Sophitia and Kyoshiro (I mention these 4 as they seem to top 8 rather more regularly than others ). Good certainly has it's perks, but I find it difficult to find a reason to run Good over something else.

Well, I do have a smattering of the new cards (only 1 Spike, though), so I think I'll post the deck over on Deck Building (it's Legacy, but I'm not planning on going Block 3 until Maxi comes out anyway).

Thanks for the info, guys.

LordAggro said:

If you're building legacy, just go wreck face. You'll be fine.